| Author | Post |
|---|
AyHyperbole
Dialogue Follower
| Joined: | Mon Nov 10th, 2008 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 2398 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
| Mana: |    |
|
Posted: Thu Oct 22nd, 2009 05:09 pm |
|
So... here's a little piece I wrote about political discourse in America. Anyone have any thoughts?
ETA: The URL I was sending has a colon-p in it, so it won't work with WowBB. Try:
http://tinyurl.com/ykosccn
Last edited on Thu Oct 22nd, 2009 05:12 pm by AyHyperbole
|
Ronson
Ronson
| Joined: | Sun Aug 19th, 2007 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 1499 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
| Mana: | |
|
Posted: Thu Oct 22nd, 2009 05:15 pm |
|
| This link routes me to a point/counterpoint about Health Care "public options."
|
AyHyperbole
Dialogue Follower
| Joined: | Mon Nov 10th, 2008 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 2398 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
| Mana: | |
|
Posted: Thu Oct 22nd, 2009 05:28 pm |
|
Ronson wrote: This link routes me to a point/counterpoint about Health Care "public options."
Yes, that's the piece I wrote.
|
Ronson
Ronson
| Joined: | Sun Aug 19th, 2007 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 1499 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
| Mana: | |
|
Posted: Thu Oct 22nd, 2009 05:50 pm |
|
Oh, OK. I didn't read it other than the author names and the title.
I watched a similar debate recently on global warming. Each side was accusing the other of hidden motives but neither presented actual evidence or data one way or the other on whether or not the planet is gradually warming. When the "debate" ended I thought "Well, that was a lesson in dogma but not much else."
Last edited on Thu Oct 22nd, 2009 05:51 pm by Ronson
|
AyHyperbole
Dialogue Follower
| Joined: | Mon Nov 10th, 2008 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 2398 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
| Mana: | |
|
Posted: Thu Oct 22nd, 2009 06:02 pm |
|
Ronson wrote: Oh, OK. I didn't read it other than the author names and the title.
I watched a similar debate recently on global warming. Each side was accusing the other of hidden motives but neither presented actual evidence or data one way or the other on whether or not the planet is gradually warming. When the "debate" ended I thought "Well, that was a lesson in dogma but not much else."
I honestly don't think I've heard one coherent argument either for or against a public option in health care - nothing beyond unsupported generalities like "Canadians come to America for surgery!" or "Health care is a human right!"
There are times when a concept of a democracy feels downright stupid, and the public option debate is one of them. Everyone has an opinion; no one has any numbers. No one honestly knows the economic impact of the plan. No one's taken an unbiased look at the pros and cons of any course of action.
But, damn it, Chicago is a corrupt political machine, and Obama is from Chicago, and Obama wants a public option, so therefore a public option must be bad...
|
Ronson
Ronson
| Joined: | Sun Aug 19th, 2007 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 1499 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
| Mana: | |
|
Posted: Thu Oct 22nd, 2009 06:15 pm |
|
AyHyperbole wrote: I honestly don't think I've heard one coherent argument either for or against a public option in health care - nothing beyond unsupported generalities like "Canadians come to America for surgery!" or "Health care is a human right!"
There are times when a concept of a democracy feels downright stupid, and the public option debate is one of them. Everyone has an opinion; no one has any numbers. No one honestly knows the economic impact of the plan. No one's taken an unbiased look at the pros and cons of any course of action.
But, damn it, Chicago is a corrupt political machine, and Obama is from Chicago, and Obama wants a public option, so therefore a public option must be bad...
Lou Dobbs had a former CBO director and an author do a quickie debate on the three current Health Care reform bills the other night. The stack of papers on Dobb's desk (just one of the bills) was tall enough to trip a tank. There was no way they could ever get to any details in the time allotted, so they resorted to the cost of the bills (which was right up the CBO's alley).
Anyway, even the proponent of the Health Care bills backed down at the suggestion of a public option. She claimed to have read all of the bills and she wasn't prepared to defend it.
I suspect any debate you find on the public option is going to be complicated and have a whole lot of financial speculation in it.
|
AyHyperbole
Dialogue Follower
| Joined: | Mon Nov 10th, 2008 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 2398 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
| Mana: | |
|
Posted: Thu Oct 22nd, 2009 06:19 pm |
|
Ronson wrote: AyHyperbole wrote: I honestly don't think I've heard one coherent argument either for or against a public option in health care - nothing beyond unsupported generalities like "Canadians come to America for surgery!" or "Health care is a human right!"
There are times when a concept of a democracy feels downright stupid, and the public option debate is one of them. Everyone has an opinion; no one has any numbers. No one honestly knows the economic impact of the plan. No one's taken an unbiased look at the pros and cons of any course of action.
But, damn it, Chicago is a corrupt political machine, and Obama is from Chicago, and Obama wants a public option, so therefore a public option must be bad...
Lou Dobbs had a former CBO director and an author do a quickie debate on the three current Health Care reform bills the other night. The stack of papers on Dobb's desk (just one of the bills) was tall enough to trip a tank. There was no way they could ever get to any details in the time allotted, so they resorted to the cost of the bills (which was right up the CBO's alley).
Anyway, even the proponent of the Health Care bills backed down at the suggestion of a public option. She claimed to have read all of the bills and she wasn't prepared to defend it.
I suspect any debate you find on the public option is going to be complicated and have a whole lot of financial speculation in it.
And, of course, no one will air a complicated debate full of financial speculation.
So instead, in the end, we just vote based entirely on demographics. Are you a black woman from Portland? Support the public option! Are you a white guy from Missouri? Then you're against it! And be sure to call each other lots and lots of names!
It seems so wretchedly counterproductive.
|
Ronson
Ronson
| Joined: | Sun Aug 19th, 2007 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 1499 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
| Mana: | |
|
Posted: Thu Oct 22nd, 2009 06:36 pm |
|
Hmmm ... well, being a "white guy from Missouri" I wouldn't want to disrupt the demographics.
Are there any states with public options that can be referenced?
|
yoki
Dialogue Facilitator
|
Posted: Thu Oct 22nd, 2009 06:38 pm |
|
Ahhhh, democracy in action. Ya gotta love it.
The best political system available to mankind, in my opinion, is a benevolent dictatorship. However, the risks involved are just so great, so we stick with what we have.
____________________
____________________
When shit happens, God doesn't give one.
|
AyHyperbole
Dialogue Follower
| Joined: | Mon Nov 10th, 2008 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 2398 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
| Mana: | |
|
Posted: Thu Oct 22nd, 2009 07:22 pm |
|
Ronson wrote: Hmmm ... well, being a "white guy from Missouri" I wouldn't want to disrupt the demographics.
Are there any states with public options that can be referenced?
That's a good question. I believe Massachusetts did something along the lines of a public option, but of course, it's not identical to any proposed plan, and its results probably don't scale.
So you're from Missouri, huh? I didn't know that. From what I know of MO politics, it's a swing state, but votes tend to fall heavily along racial lines. Does that sound about right?
|
Sigmund Freud
Ronson
| Joined: | Sat Aug 25th, 2007 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 426 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
| Mana: | |
|
Posted: Thu Oct 22nd, 2009 07:23 pm |
|
| I volunteer to be your benevolent dictator. But I will require lots of flattery and appeasement. And money. And I don't want anyone criticizing me. And I want ladies to throw themselves at me. I'd also like a sports car with a good speaker system.
|
Ronson
Ronson
| Joined: | Sun Aug 19th, 2007 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 1499 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
| Mana: | |
|
Posted: Thu Oct 22nd, 2009 07:29 pm |
|
AyHyperbole wrote: That's a good question. I believe Massachusetts did something along the lines of a public option, but of course, it's not identical to any proposed plan, and its results probably don't scale.
So you're from Missouri, huh? I didn't know that. From what I know of MO politics, it's a swing state, but votes tend to fall heavily along racial lines. Does that sound about right?
I live in Missouri now but I am from California. I came out here in 2006, taking advantage of the real estate bubble.
Yeah, Missouri appears to be a swing state. In the area I live in, during the election last year, I'd say the bumper stickers were equal betwwen McCain and Obama.
|
AyHyperbole
Dialogue Follower
| Joined: | Mon Nov 10th, 2008 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 2398 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
| Mana: | |
|
Posted: Thu Oct 22nd, 2009 08:03 pm |
|
Ronson wrote: AyHyperbole wrote: That's a good question. I believe Massachusetts did something along the lines of a public option, but of course, it's not identical to any proposed plan, and its results probably don't scale.
So you're from Missouri, huh? I didn't know that. From what I know of MO politics, it's a swing state, but votes tend to fall heavily along racial lines. Does that sound about right?
I live in Missouri now but I am from California. I came out here in 2006, taking advantage of the real estate bubble.
Yeah, Missouri appears to be a swing state. In the area I live in, during the election last year, I'd say the bumper stickers were equal betwwen McCain and Obama.
Well, we have that in common. I live in the swing city of a swing state: in Nevada, Las Vegas is fairly blue, Reno is about 50-50, and the rest of the state is overwhelmingly red. As goes Reno, so goes Nevada.
You know what I noticed around here? Most of the bumper stickers went for Obama; most of the yard signs went for McCain.
It's always about demographics...
|
Current time is 04:26 pm | |
|
