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manonfire
Manofire
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Posted: Tue Aug 18th, 2009 03:37 am |
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Last edited on Tue Aug 18th, 2009 10:38 am by manonfire
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"When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty." Thomas Jefferson
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jratcliff
John W. Ratcliff
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Posted: Tue Aug 18th, 2009 07:06 am |
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Manofire,
Benjamin Franklin, and many other Founding Brothers, were deists (as am I). I find myself in good company.
I do believe in God, I believe the Universe and all of creation, is God. I believe that, collectively, we are all God because we are all part of the Universe.
My belief in God is based on science, logic, reason and rational thought. My belief in God is based on the teachings of the 2nd degree of Freemasonry.
I feel completely comfortable and confident in my belief in God as the Grand Architect of the Universe.
I hope that answers any questions you might have on the topic.
John
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For God so loved the world he created the quantum uncertainty principle.
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yoki
Dialogue Facilitator
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Posted: Tue Aug 18th, 2009 08:08 pm |
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I wonder if manonfire will now try and have John's Mason membership revoked.
Manonfire is somehow a fundamentalist Christian, and a Mason at the same time. Maybe manonfire's membership should be revoked from the "other" brotherhood.
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When shit happens, God doesn't give one.
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jratcliff
John W. Ratcliff
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Posted: Tue Aug 18th, 2009 08:19 pm |
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Yoki, Manofire is welcome to try to get my Freemason membership revoked.
I am the Past Master of Napthali Lodge #25 and the current Senior Warden at Wentzville Lodge #46. I was recently awarded the 'Legion of Honor' by DeMolay International. I am the chairman of a DeMolay chapter that I have been managing for the past five years.
I am extremely well liked and respected in the Freemason community in the State of Missouri. If the Grand Lodge wants to revoke my membership for being a pantheist, in other words for believing the same thing as Benjamin Franklin and many other founding fathers of our nation, that's just fine by me.
John
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For God so loved the world he created the quantum uncertainty principle.
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yoki
Dialogue Facilitator
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Posted: Tue Aug 18th, 2009 09:23 pm |
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jratcliff wrote: Yoki, Manofire is welcome to try to get my Freemason membership revoked.
I am the Past Master of Napthali Lodge #25 and the current Senior Warden at Wentzville Lodge #46. I was recently awarded the 'Legion of Honor' by DeMolay International. I am the chairman of a DeMolay chapter that I have been managing for the past five years.
I am extremely well liked and respected in the Freemason community in the State of Missouri. If the Grand Lodge wants to revoke my membership for being a pantheist, in other words for believing the same thing as Benjamin Franklin and many other founding fathers of our nation, that's just fine by me.
John
Manonfire thinks all freemasons are born again Christians. Maybe they are in his neck of the woods - Texas. I think they all have to own guns too... not sure about that though.
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When shit happens, God doesn't give one.
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manonfire
Manofire
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Posted: Wed Aug 19th, 2009 01:46 am |
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jratcliff wrote:
Yoki, Manofire is welcome to try to get my Freemason membership revoked.
I am the Past Master of Napthali Lodge #25 and the current Senior Warden at Wentzville Lodge #46. I was recently awarded the 'Legion of Honor' by DeMolay International. I am the chairman of a DeMolay chapter that I have been managing for the past five years.
I am extremely well liked and respected in the Freemason community in the State of Missouri. If the Grand Lodge wants to revoke my membership for being a pantheist, in other words for believing the same thing as Benjamin Franklin and many other founding fathers of our nation, that's just fine by me.
John
I'm not interested in revoking your membership in FM. However, I am interested in why you have violated your oath as a Master Mason. Do Missouri Masons not take their oaths/obligations seriously?
John, don't con yourself. You know that not long ago you would not of been allowed to enter the north gate. Only in the recent past, due to a sharp decline in numbers, FM started allowing anyone with a pulse and a zip code to to be made a Mason. I suspect this is how how you got in.
I don't believe that you are any danger of having your photograph removed from your lodge wall for being a pantheist, not in these times. I'll let you and your "diety" (stars, planets) deal with the serious issue of violating your Master Mason oath.
Edit to add: If you have anything else to say to me, please do it by e-mail. I have no desire of ever coming back on this Godless board.Last edited on Wed Aug 19th, 2009 02:00 am by manonfire
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"When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty." Thomas Jefferson
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yoki
Dialogue Facilitator
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Posted: Wed Aug 19th, 2009 03:39 am |
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manonfire wrote: I have no desire of ever coming back on this Godless board.
Now where I have I heard that before? Last time I heard that, I said, "there really is a god." Now, I am not so sure, since manonfire can't stick to his word, and has the will power of a wet noodle.Last edited on Wed Aug 19th, 2009 03:39 am by yoki
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When shit happens, God doesn't give one.
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jratcliff
John W. Ratcliff
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Posted: Wed Aug 19th, 2009 09:13 pm |
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Manofire,
I'm not sure what portion of my oath you think I violated. And, I challenge you to show me where it says a pantheist/deist is not allowed to become a Freemason? Traditionally, and throughout history, many pantheists/deists have been Freemasons, including some of the most famous Freemasons of all.
Certain major religions are fundamentally pantheist in nature, for example Hinduism.
As a Freemason we are supposed to be tolerant of the religious beliefs of others. I have certainly tried to do so since I have become involved in the organization. I'm not sure why you are being intolerant of my beliefs.
When I say I am a pantheist, that is saying actually quite a lot. I am not an atheist or material reductionist. I hold out hope that there exists a human spirit which survives death and remains a permanent part of the Universe. I have strong suspicions that at the deepest level of the Universe time itself is merely an illusion.
My beliefs about the Great Architect of the Universe are deep, profound, personal, and not really open for you to question.
As far as violating my oath, I don't know what you are talking about.
John
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For God so loved the world he created the quantum uncertainty principle.
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