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stiggywiggy
Stiggywiggy
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Posted: Tue Aug 4th, 2009 02:49 pm |
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Aldaron wrote: stiggywiggy wrote: Aldaron wrote: Nonsense. Evolution is most certainly a "fact". It has been observed, directly and indirectly, on countless occasions. If you'd bothered to read the information on the "mere website address" I typed you would know this.
Bullshit. No one has ever observed a human being evolving from anything.
We you under the impression that one has to watch a human being evolve from something else in order to observe evolution?
Damn right I was. Just as one cannot claim to have observed an apple tree without actually having seen an apple tree.
So I repeat: No one has any empirical evidence at all that proves the theory of evolution to be a fact.
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JackFlash
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Posted: Tue Aug 4th, 2009 02:54 pm |
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stiggywiggy wrote:
Yep. I did indeed know already that you could give no empirical evidence whatsoever for a human being evolving from another species.
Just as you can give no empirical evidence whatsoever that the NSA is not monitoring this board and all of my phone calls and business transactions and watching you as you sleep.
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stiggywiggy
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Posted: Tue Aug 4th, 2009 02:55 pm |
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Aldaron wrote: surely you knew that already, though
Of course he knew it.
Of course I did. That's why I made the claim in the first place. No one has ever observed a human being evolving from another species.
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stiggywiggy
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Posted: Tue Aug 4th, 2009 02:58 pm |
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JackFlash wrote: stiggywiggy wrote:
Yep. I did indeed know already that you could give no empirical evidence whatsoever for a human being evolving from another species.
Just as you can give no empirical evidence whatsoever that the NSA is not monitoring this board and all of my phone calls and business transactions and watching you as you sleep.
Nor can you give any empirical evidence that invisible midgets are not guarding Fort Knox, but that hardly means you should develop a theory about it and then call it a fact.
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Aldaron
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Posted: Tue Aug 4th, 2009 03:25 pm |
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stiggywiggy wrote: Aldaron wrote: stiggywiggy wrote: Aldaron wrote: Nonsense. Evolution is most certainly a "fact". It has been observed, directly and indirectly, on countless occasions. If you'd bothered to read the information on the "mere website address" I typed you would know this.
Bullshit. No one has ever observed a human being evolving from anything.
We you under the impression that one has to watch a human being evolve from something else in order to observe evolution?
Damn right I was. Just as one cannot claim to have observed an apple tree without actually having seen an apple tree.
So I repeat: No one has any empirical evidence at all that proves the theory of evolution to be a fact.
And since nobody has ever observed Alpha Centauri A to have gravity, it's absurd to contend that it does.
I repeat: I have linked you to ample empirical evidence that demonstrates evolution to be both a theory and a fact. That you keep demanding - yet again - an absurd burden of proof does not discount the theory.
It appears that you think humans are some special case. We observe evolution occurring in many populations of living organisms, but you just discount it happening in humans. You challenge someone to show how they've observed speciation in humans, knowing full-well that it is something which takes hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of years, and then confidently assert that there is no evidence for it, despite being pointed towards a great deal of evidence for it. Morphology, genetics, the fossil record - all of them are empirical evidence for the evolution of humans.
But Stiggy wants CCTV footage, it seems.
I hope to hell that if I'm ever charged with murder that Stiggy's on the jury.
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Aldaron
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Posted: Tue Aug 4th, 2009 03:31 pm |
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stiggywiggy wrote: Aldaron wrote: surely you knew that already, though
Of course he knew it.
Of course I did. That's why I made the claim in the first place. No one has ever observed a human being evolving from another species.
Since it appears that you're just going to keep repeating this absurd claim (which is roughly analogous to claiming that since nobody has observed the planets orbiting the sun that geocentrism still has merit), I'll just keep repeating my first response to it - perhaps, with enough repetition, you'll read beyond the first sentence and stop ignoring the bulk of the argument while focusing on one small part of it:
We you under the impression that one has to watch a human being evolve from something else in order to observe evolution?
You've heard of methicillin-resistant staphylococcus aureus (MRSA)? It is a new species of s. aureus that has evolved over the last 50 years or so of profligate and incorrect use of antibiotics. It was predicted back in the 1950s, and the predictions were ignored. Those predictions were based on evolutionary theory, which allowed microbiologists to make a prediction that later became an observed fact: s. aureus evolved, right before our very eyes, Stiggy.
Like I said: go and read the links I've provided you. They provide plentiful examples of speciation and observed evolution.
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JackFlash
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Posted: Tue Aug 4th, 2009 03:40 pm |
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stiggywiggy wrote:
Of course I did. That's why I made the claim in the first place. No one has ever observed a human being evolving from another species.
We now know what the problem is. You just haven't evolved yet. Don't worry, in about 100,000 years you'll catch up to the rest of us.
The Dover Penn. School board were made fools in an open court for taking their case to court against evolution. And, like you, they don't have enough sense to realize how foolish they appear to thinking people. The plaintiffs also proved that Christians are willing to lie under oath to promote their agenda, Intelligent design was proved to be a scam and the lying Christians were voted out of office.
The case for evolution was laid out in a court room in front of a very conservative judge, appointed by Bush 2, who had previously stated that he believed in ID. At the end of the trial he ruled for evolution and ordered ID out of the school curriculum.
The reason I mention this is because I think you are one of those right-wing nut-jobs who lie a lot in order to promote crappy ideas. The reason you won't look at the evidence is that you don't care if you're wrong, so long as your lies support your warped sense of reality.
Like I said, I'm not concerned about your reading comprehension, it's your IQ that I wonder about. To quote a phrase from my childhood, "you don't have the sense God gave a piss ant."
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stiggywiggy
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Posted: Tue Aug 4th, 2009 05:46 pm |
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Aldaron wrote: And since nobody has ever observed Alpha Centauri A to have gravity, it's absurd to contend that it does.
Ad yet we can observe that Alpha Centauri has gravity. Are you unfamiliar with the fact that gravity bends light?
However, we cannot observe a human being evolving from another species. That's why Jack Flash was completely incorrect in claiming that evolution is a fact. Not only was he wrong, but his comment flies in the face of the scientific method of inquiry.
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stiggywiggy
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Posted: Tue Aug 4th, 2009 05:55 pm |
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JackFlash wrote: stiggywiggy wrote:
Of course I did. That's why I made the claim in the first place. No one has ever observed a human being evolving from another species.
We now know what the problem is. You just haven't evolved yet. Don't worry, in about 100,000 years you'll catch up to the rest of us.
And let me guess. In 100,000 years when I allegedly evolve into another species, there will be a guy 80 billion years after the fact, a guy as dumb as you, who never having seen the transformation, will nevertheless claim it as a universal FACT for all of the "species formerly known as homo sapiens.'
"you don't have the sense God gave a piss ant."
Maybe that's because the species known as piss ant has evolved to a higher degree than our wimpy homo sapiens species. Maybe you could also verify that evolutionary FACT without having empirically verified it via observation. You seem skilled that way.
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JackFlash
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Posted: Tue Aug 4th, 2009 06:41 pm |
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stiggywiggy wrote:
And let me guess. In 100,000 years when I allegedly evolve into another species, there will be a guy 80 billion years after the fact, a guy as dumb as you, who never having seen the transformation, will nevertheless claim it as a universal FACT for all of the "species formerly known as homo sapiens.'
Actually, in 100,000 years you might evolve into a homo sapien. Try reading what I write instead of responding to your delusions.
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JackFlash
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Posted: Tue Aug 4th, 2009 06:56 pm |
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stiggywiggy
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Posted: Tue Aug 4th, 2009 09:48 pm |
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JackFlash wrote: stiggywiggy wrote:
And let me guess. In 100,000 years when I allegedly evolve into another species, there will be a guy 80 billion years after the fact, a guy as dumb as you, who never having seen the transformation, will nevertheless claim it as a universal FACT for all of the "species formerly known as homo sapiens.'
Actually, in 100,000 years you might evolve into a homo sapien.
All right. Go with that. I might evolve into something, and you have allegedly empirically verified the process involved in said hypothetical evolution.
Tell us all about how you emprically observed anyone (doesn't have to be me) evolving into a human being.
You claimed evolution is a fact. Facts should be verifiable. Tell us the process whereby you (or anyone for that matter) observed another human being evolving from a lower species.
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stiggywiggy
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Posted: Tue Aug 4th, 2009 09:59 pm |
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JackFlash wrote:
You do seem to be a bit of a masochist. Good that you're aware of it, though.
But tell me all about when you empirically verified the fact that you yourself evolved from a lower species. Or was it someone besides yourself you saw make that transformation? Did you travel back in time, or was it a contemporary event? Who was it? What was their name? Was it a random mutation, like a fruit fly in a lab? Was the new homo sapien-type creature that emerged more adaptable to the altered environmemt than it's parents? What species were its parents? Did they immediately go extinct, or did that come later, while they lived simultaneosly with their descendants?
Tell us more, Jack. Do other creatures evolve before your eyes in Waco, Georgia?
Must be something in the swamp water. I only live about an hour and a half from you. Can I come over and do some empirical verification myself?
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JackFlash
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Posted: Tue Aug 4th, 2009 10:04 pm |
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stiggywiggy wrote: JackFlash wrote: stiggywiggy wrote:
And let me guess. In 100,000 years when I allegedly evolve into another species, there will be a guy 80 billion years after the fact, a guy as dumb as you, who never having seen the transformation, will nevertheless claim it as a universal FACT for all of the "species formerly known as homo sapiens.'
Actually, in 100,000 years you might evolve into a homo sapien.
All right. Go with that. I might evolve into something, and you have allegedly empirically verified the process involved in said hypothetical evolution.
Tell us all about how you emprically observed anyone (doesn't have to be me) evolving into a human being.
You claimed evolution is a fact. Facts should be verifiable. Tell us the process whereby you (or anyone for that matter) observed another human being evolving from a lower species.
Aldaron sent you a wonderful link that explains the whole thing.
How in the hell do you think humans and other species got here, the product of an Easy Bake Oven? 
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JackFlash
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Posted: Tue Aug 4th, 2009 10:24 pm |
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stiggywiggy wrote: Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah,
Go read the article and at least learn what it is you're arguing about. You sound like a blind man arguing about the color of the font.
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stiggywiggy
Stiggywiggy
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Posted: Wed Aug 5th, 2009 01:44 am |
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JackFlash wrote: stiggywiggy wrote: Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah,
Dude, check out your hard-drive. Some coding has gone haywire. I was trying to get you to flesh out this claim of yours that evolution was a FACT. Being the scientifically minded fellow you are, I'm sure that you established the validity of this fact by empirical verification. I was asking about that, as you'll see. Hopefully, this time, the Blah, Blah coding problem will be rectified:
Here's what I had said:
Tell me all about when you empirically verified the fact that you yourself evolved from a lower species. Or was it someone besides yourself you saw make that transformation? Did you travel back in time, or was it a contemporary event? Who was it? What was their name? Was it a random mutation, like a fruit fly in a lab? Was the new homo sapien-type creature that emerged more adaptable to the altered environment than it's parents? What species were its parents? Did they immediately go extinct, or did that come later, while they lived simultaneosly with their descendants?
Tell us more, Jack. Do other creatures evolve before your eyes in Waco, Georgia?
Must be something in the swamp water. I only live about an hour and a half from you. Can I come over and do some empirical verification myself?
Last edited on Wed Aug 5th, 2009 01:45 am by stiggywiggy
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Aldaron
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Posted: Wed Aug 5th, 2009 03:51 am |
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Ad yet we can observe that Alpha Centauri has gravity. Are you unfamiliar with the fact that gravity bends light?
That's just a theory, Stiggy. Gravitation theory makes all kinds of predictions, but the simple fact is that nobody has watched anything fall towards Alpha Centauri A, hence there is no empirical evidence it has gravity.
Wow...this is easy...
However, we cannot observe a human being evolving from another species.
Coming on the heels of your comment about Alpha Centauri, this comment is particularly curious. We cannot directly observe a human being evolving from another species: however, we can observe the results of human evolution (which I've linked you to), and see the same mechanism in many other, far shorter-lived species (which I've also linked you to).
So you're wrong on two counts:
1) If we can use gravitation theory to predict what would happen if Alpha Centauri A has gravity, and use observation to confirm the result of those predictions, why can we not use evolutionary theory to predict what would happen if humans evolved from earlier forms, and use observation to confirm the result of those predictions?
2) You are the one insisting that "x --> human" be the evidence for evolution. That's like me insisting on seeing something fall into Alpha Centauri A before I'll accept gravitation as both a fact (ie: gravity exists) and a theory (ie: our reasoning behind why it exists and how it works). I never mentioned humans at all. I pointed you to ample evidence of evolution occurring in many animals and plants - you are the one who keeps trying to push me into a "here is a proto-human evolving into a human" corner.
Not going to work, Stiggy. I've already repeatedly explained that this is a creationist strawman. Human evolution has occurred over hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of years. It is as impossible to show, literally, a species evolving into humans as it is to show a hammer falling into the surface of Alpha Centauri A.
But because we see how gravity exists, and we have formulated theories on how it works, we can predict pretty damn certainly that a hammer will fall into the surface of a distant star.
Just as we can see how evolution exists (from observing it in other species), and we have formulated theories on how it works, and we can therefore predict pretty damn certainly that humans have evolved from an earlier species - just like every other species. And every bit of evidence we've collected so far supports this.
I'm dropping this here and now. I know you're simply yanking my chain over this, Stiggy. You have said in the past that you have a degree in physics, and if this is the case, you are fully cognisant of the concept that something can be both a fact and a theory at the same time. You're playing dumb with this in an effort to piss people off - as usual.
Edit to remove a quoted line.
Last edited on Wed Aug 5th, 2009 04:48 am by Aldaron
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Arthur Two Sheds Gumby
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Posted: Wed Aug 5th, 2009 04:44 am |
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stiggywiggy wrote: That would be called growth. Let me know when you see a human being evolve from another species. That should make news.
Who ever said that happened? Sure as hell wasn't Darwin.
You do know who Darwin is, don't you? You sure don't seem familiar with his work.
As to evolution of a species, well, obviously you can't observe the whole of that in a single individual.
And yet the obviousness of that fact somehow does not prevent declin from calling evolution itself a fact.
That's because evolution doesn't occur within a single individual, it occurs within species over a long span of time.
Really, Stig, you should learn what something is before trying to criticize it. You're way out of your depth here, Full Of It. You're definitely NOT full of knowledge on this one!
-- A2SG, which is what makes your show over here so damn entertaining...only here, we're laughing AT you, not WITH you.....
Last edited on Wed Aug 5th, 2009 04:52 am by Arthur Two Sheds Gumby
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Aldaron
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Posted: Wed Aug 5th, 2009 04:51 am |
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Arthur Two Sheds Gumby wrote: stiggywiggy wrote: That would be called growth. Let me know when you see a human being evolve from another species. That should make news.
Who ever said that happened? Sure as hell wasn't Darwin.
-- A2SG, you do know who Darwin is, don't you? You sure don't seem familiar with his work....
I've never met a creationist/IDer who is. Stiggy is just confirming the trope. "Let me know when you see a human being evolve from another species" amply demonstrates that he's either screwing with us (again), or that he really doesn't have a clue how evolution works.
If it's the former, I can't be fucked arguing with him anymore. If it's the latter, I can't be fucked explaining it again.
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Arthur Two Sheds Gumby
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Posted: Wed Aug 5th, 2009 04:55 am |
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Aldaron wrote: Arthur Two Sheds Gumby wrote: stiggywiggy wrote: That would be called growth. Let me know when you see a human being evolve from another species. That should make news.
Who ever said that happened? Sure as hell wasn't Darwin.
-- A2SG, you do know who Darwin is, don't you? You sure don't seem familiar with his work....
I've never met a creationist/IDer who is. Stiggy is just confirming the trope. "Let me know when you see a human being evolve from another species" amply demonstrates that he's either screwing with us (again), or that he really doesn't have a clue how evolution works.
If it's the former, I can't be fucked arguing with him anymore. If it's the latter, I can't be fucked explaining it again.
When he's just screwing with us, it's usually because he knows enough about what's really going on to pretend he doesn't. Kind of like it takes someone who really knows how to play music to play it badly...like Spike Jones, for instance.
Here, statements like that just prove he's way out of his depth.
-- A2SG, ve heil, heil, right in der fuehrer's face....
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