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manonfire
Manofire
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Posted: Fri Jun 12th, 2009 05:35 pm |
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Answer: Every so often news outlets irresponsibly report the sensational claim that someone somewhere has finally found “the missing link.” This gives people the false impression that some scientist somewhere has, at long last, discovered the fossilized remains of some kind of half-human, half-apelike creature (thereby proving Darwin’s theory). In actual fact, no such fossil has ever been found. All that has ever been found are the fossilized remains of prosimians, monkeys, apes and humans. But eager as they are to find the ever-missing “missing link” and lay the controversy to rest, Darwinists tend to hone in on any superficial aspect of a fossil that they could possibly interpret as a mark of evolutionary transition from monkey to ape, or from ape to human, and news organizations are more than happy to print sensational headlines (which, needless to say, are good for business).
Take Darwinius massillae for example, the fossil discovery also known as “Ida” (after the daughter of a Norwegian scientist who led the research team). Ida looks exactly like a modern lemur except that she lacks the tooth-comb and grooming-claw common to modern lemurs. Darwinists excitedly interpreted this to mean that she must have been an evolutionary transition from prosimian (the group to which lemurs belong) to monkey, since monkeys don’t have tooth-combs or grooming-claws (and neither does Ida). This is not the only possible interpretation as we shall see, but it suits Darwinists just fine. And it is sensational of course, which suits the media as well.
Now, what happens if we find a man born with hands but no arms, so that his hands are attached directly to his shoulders? Should we believe that he is evolving into a fish? That would seem to be the same rationale being used here by Darwinists. The fact is there are people born with hands but no arms and they are all still 100% human. They are known as “phocomeli.” They suffer from “phocomelia,” a condition which can either be inherited or caused by prenatal exposure to the drug thalidomide.
Could it be that just as phocomeli suffer from a terrible deformity, so too did this fossilized lemur? It is entirely possible. But what would be more sensational to report—the discovery of the fossilized remains of a dead deformed lemur or the finding of an exciting new species that might fit somewhere within the presumed family tree of human evolution? In fact, if we go with the latter instead of the former, people could make outrageous claims like it’s “the eighth wonder of the world…” Google could incorporate Ida’s image into their logo for a day… headlines could proclaim that we’ve finally found the missing link… and eager Charles Darwin devotees could claim victory once and for all, all of which actually happened with Ida in 2009, all because of one dead lemur with two missing body parts.
The news reports also made a big deal out of the fact that Ida has opposable thumbs and nails instead of claws, which are human characteristics, but they didn’t bother to mention that modern lemurs also have opposable thumbs and nails instead of claws, so those features have no evolutionary significance whatsoever.
Unfortunately, this is not an isolated incident. Example after example could be given of mere fragments of bone and even pig’s teeth that have been imagined into ape-men, sold to the public and placed in textbooks. Bones of 100% humans have been wrongly categorized with the bones of 100% apes to create non-existent, ape-men species. Diseased human skeletons have been distorted to look more ape-like and put on display. Even the wide range of potential anatomical variations among humans has been misinterpreted, not only among dead human specimens but among living humans as well.
Modern Australian Aborigines, for example, are known for their deep-set eyes, short faces, heavy brow ridges and large, jutting jaws. These so-called ape-like features coupled with their traditional Stone Age culture led Darwinists of the 19th and 20th centuries to imagine that they were some kind of primitive ape-men. The pygmies of Africa fared no better. Many were rounded up and put on display in cages.
Some 19th and 20th century Darwinists thought that all non-Caucasian people were ape-like and therefore inferior to whites. Darwin himself wrote that, “At some future period, not very distant as measured by centuries, the civilized races of man will almost certainly exterminate, and replace, the savage races throughout the world. At the same time the anthropomorphous apes...will no doubt be exterminated. The break between man and his nearest allies will then be wider, for it will intervene between man in a more civilized state, as we may hope, even than the Caucasian, and some ape as low as a baboon, instead of as now between the Negro or Australian and the gorilla” (Charles Darwin, The Descent of Man, 2nd ed., John Murray, London, p. 156, 1887).
Notice how Darwin coupled Negroes and Australian Aborigines with gorillas and contrasted them with Caucasians (despite the fact that Negroes, Aborigines and Caucasians are all 100% human while gorillas are 100% ape). Essentially this is what modern Darwinists do with groups like the Neanderthals. Neanderthals appear to have been just another race of humans with superficial “ape-like” characteristics like the Australian Aborigines. They appear to have suffered from pathological conditions like rickets and arthritis which exacerbated their superficial ape-like characteristics (rickets is a vitamin D deficiency which softens the bones and can cause people to hunch over). Not only can humans be born with “ape-like” traits like heavy brow ridges and large, jutting jaws, but pathologies like cephalic disorders, syphilis, scurvy and rickets can make them look even more ape-like later in life. But everything we know about Neanderthals suggests that they were just as human as modern-d ay Australian Aborigines. They were skilled hunters, lived in complex societies, buried their dead, and practiced religion.
The bottom line is while deformities and the potential for variation within genomes involves the duplication, misplacement, loss and/or reshuffling of preexisting genetic information—a process observed in natural world and whose mechanisms are identifiable and understood—the idea that prosimians could evolve into monkeys or monkeys into apes or apes into humans would involve the addition of new genetic information into a genome, a process that has never been observed in nature and whose mechanisms have not been identified by scientists. It’s no wonder then that we cannot seem to find any real solid evidence that it ever happened in the past. It is no wonder that the missing link is still missing. *gotquestions.org*Last edited on Fri Jun 12th, 2009 05:36 pm by manonfire
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AyHyperbole
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Posted: Fri Jun 12th, 2009 05:59 pm |
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manonfire wrote: Answer: Every so often news outlets irresponsibly report the sensational claim that someone somewhere has finally found “the missing link.” This gives people the false impression that some scientist somewhere has, at long last, discovered the fossilized remains of some kind of half-human, half-apelike creature (thereby proving Darwin’s theory). In actual fact, no such fossil has ever been found.
That's just nonsense. We've got multiple fossils of A. africanus and A. afarensis. We've got multiple fossils of H. habilis and H. erectus. As many as 13 extinct species of the genus Homo have been identified, and five species of Australopithecus.
We don't have a perfect fossil narative of how to get from A. Afarensis to H. habilis, but that's hardly surprising, since we're dealing with four-million-year-old fossils. But there's really little doubt that we're looking at our ancestors in those genera.
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yoki
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Posted: Fri Jun 12th, 2009 06:15 pm |
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The fact is assholeonfire, there is no missing link. The "Missing Link" is a myth, created by who knows. Those who would adhere to the possibility of finding a missing link, do not understand the theory of evolution.
Man did not evolve from apes, but rather, man and apes had common ancestors. And hey, I am a creationist and not an evolutionist. But let us try a refute theories with intelligence rather than with ignorance and stupidity. One can not refute that of which one has no understanding.
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Tyrrho
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Posted: Fri Jun 12th, 2009 06:36 pm |
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This section of your quote gives an indication of the quality of the source:
manonfire wrote: The bottom line is while deformities and the potential for variation within genomes involves the duplication, misplacement, loss and/or reshuffling of preexisting genetic information—a process observed in natural world and whose mechanisms are identifiable and understood—the idea that prosimians could evolve into monkeys or monkeys into apes or apes into humans would involve the addition of new genetic information into a genome, a process that has never been observed in nature and whose mechanisms have not been identified by scientists.
Take a piece of the genome and duplicate it. Then delete part of the copy, and shuffle some of the rest of it around. The end result, which your source admits is the result of "a process observed in natural world and whose mechanisms are identifiable and understood" is indistinguishable from "the addition of new genetic information into a genome, a process that has never been observed in nature and whose mechanisms have not been identified by scientists."
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Tyrrho
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Posted: Fri Jun 12th, 2009 06:40 pm |
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yoki wrote: The fact is assholeonfire, there is no missing link. The "Missing Link" is a myth, created by who knows. Those who would adhere to the possibility of finding a missing link, do not understand the theory of evolution.
Man did not evolve from apes, but rather, man and apes had common ancestors. And hey, I am a creationist and not an evolutionist. But let us try a refute theories with intelligence rather than with ignorance and stupidity. One can not refute that of which one has no understanding.
I think it is understood by everyone here (even Hiram) that the term "missing link" is just another way of saying "common ancestor".
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AyHyperbole
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Posted: Fri Jun 12th, 2009 07:03 pm |
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yoki wrote: The fact is assholeonfire, there is no missing link. The "Missing Link" is a myth, created by who knows. Those who would adhere to the possibility of finding a missing link, do not understand the theory of evolution.
Man did not evolve from apes, but rather, man and apes had common ancestors. And hey, I am a creationist and not an evolutionist. But let us try a refute theories with intelligence rather than with ignorance and stupidity. One can not refute that of which one has no understanding.
Well, this is sort of a matter of semantics.
Technically speaking, modern humans are apes - the "great apes" family Hominidae consists of chimpanzees, humans, gorillas, and orangutans.
Each of those great apes evolved from species of ape that are now extinct. Those ape ancestors appear to have evolved from old-world monkeys roughly 30 million years ago.
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rvhill
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Posted: Fri Jun 12th, 2009 07:29 pm |
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AyHyperbole wrote: yoki wrote: The fact is assholeonfire, there is no missing link. The "Missing Link" is a myth, created by who knows. Those who would adhere to the possibility of finding a missing link, do not understand the theory of evolution.
Man did not evolve from apes, but rather, man and apes had common ancestors. And hey, I am a creationist and not an evolutionist. But let us try a refute theories with intelligence rather than with ignorance and stupidity. One can not refute that of which one has no understanding.
Well, this is sort of a matter of semantics.
Technically speaking, modern humans are apes - the "great apes" family Hominidae consists of chimpanzees, humans, gorillas, and orangutans.
Each of those great apes evolved from species of ape that are now extinct. Those ape ancestors appear to have evolved from old-world monkeys roughly 30 million years ago.
But our chromosome count is different from the other great apes. That really is our biggest difference from chimpanzees. We may have 98% of the same genes, but they are put together differently. Yes I know that our one chromosome is a amalgamation of two of theirs, but it probably adds up to quit a difference when you add Epigenetics to the picture. I really don't think they are going back far enough to find a common link.
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Sigmund Freud
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Posted: Fri Jun 12th, 2009 07:56 pm |
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manonfire wrote: Has the missing Link been found?
I found the missing link ages ago.
Attachment: simon.JPG (Downloaded 59 times)
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Tyrrho
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Posted: Fri Jun 12th, 2009 08:17 pm |
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rvhill wrote: But our chromosome count is different from the other great apes. That really is our biggest difference from chimpanzees. We may have 98% of the same genes, but they are put together differently. Yes I know that our one chromosome is a amalgamation of two of theirs, but it probably adds up to quit a difference when you add Epigenetics to the picture. I really don't think they are going back far enough to find a common link.
You don't think 47 million years is far enough back?
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yoki
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Posted: Mon Jun 15th, 2009 02:55 pm |
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AyHyperbole wrote: yoki wrote: The fact is assholeonfire, there is no missing link. The "Missing Link" is a myth, created by who knows. Those who would adhere to the possibility of finding a missing link, do not understand the theory of evolution.
Man did not evolve from apes, but rather, man and apes had common ancestors. And hey, I am a creationist and not an evolutionist. But let us try a refute theories with intelligence rather than with ignorance and stupidity. One can not refute that of which one has no understanding.
Well, this is sort of a matter of semantics.
Technically speaking, modern humans are apes - the "great apes" family Hominidae consists of chimpanzees, humans, gorillas, and orangutans.
Each of those great apes evolved from species of ape that are now extinct. Those ape ancestors appear to have evolved from old-world monkeys roughly 30 million years ago.
Yes, it is a matter of semantics. Within the anti-evolution mind of fundie religionists, is the concept that man evolved from an ape like the Chimpanzee or Gorilla. We may share a common ancestor, but it is very doubtful than man evolved from a more specialized brachiator like the ones mentioned above.
Whether or not that theoretical generalized "ape" that was our direct ancestor was actually an "ape", is a matter of semantics only.
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rvhill
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Posted: Tue Jun 16th, 2009 01:14 am |
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Tyrrho wrote: rvhill wrote: But our chromosome count is different from the other great apes. That really is our biggest difference from chimpanzees. We may have 98% of the same genes, but they are put together differently. Yes I know that our one chromosome is a amalgamation of two of theirs, but it probably adds up to quit a difference when you add Epigenetics to the picture. I really don't think they are going back far enough to find a common link.
You don't think 47 million years is far enough back?
for some reason I was seeing 4.7 mill
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manonfire
Manofire
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Posted: Wed Jun 17th, 2009 04:58 am |
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Man, every time I look at yoki's avatar, I get hungry.
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limana
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Posted: Wed Jun 17th, 2009 11:25 am |
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manonfire wrote: Man, every time I look at yoki's avatar, I get hungry.
For Hiram, cat is the other white meat.
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yoki
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Posted: Wed Jun 17th, 2009 02:15 pm |
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limana wrote: manonfire wrote: Man, every time I look at yoki's avatar, I get hungry.
For Hiram, cat is the other white meat.
It is merely a subliminal desire on his part. Apparently he loves chicken and eats in Chinese restaurants a lot.
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manonfire
Manofire
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Posted: Wed Jun 17th, 2009 03:42 pm |
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yoki wrote:
limana wrote: manonfire wrote: Man, every time I look at yoki's avatar, I get hungry.
For Hiram, cat is the other white meat.
It is merely a subliminal desire on his part. Apparently he loves chicken and eats in Chinese restaurants a lot.
Well now, that was certainly a racist, bigoted comment!
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yoki
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Posted: Wed Jun 17th, 2009 04:20 pm |
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manonfire wrote: yoki wrote:
limana wrote: manonfire wrote: Man, every time I look at yoki's avatar, I get hungry.
For Hiram, cat is the other white meat.
It is merely a subliminal desire on his part. Apparently he loves chicken and eats in Chinese restaurants a lot.
Well now, that was certainly a racist, bigoted comment!
I am glad you noticed.
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manonfire
Manofire
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Posted: Wed Jun 17th, 2009 04:34 pm |
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Tyrrho wrote:
yoki wrote: The fact is assholeonfire, there is no missing link. The "Missing Link" is a myth, created by who knows. Those who would adhere to the possibility of finding a missing link, do not understand the theory of evolution.
Man did not evolve from apes, but rather, man and apes had common ancestors. And hey, I am a creationist and not an evolutionist. But let us try a refute theories with intelligence rather than with ignorance and stupidity. One can not refute that of which one has no understanding.
I think it is understood by everyone here (even Hiram) that the term "missing link" is just another way of saying "common ancestor".
Nope, that's not what I'm saying. Apes are apes, birds are birds, and fish are fish. They are not my ancestors, and are not related in any way to humans.
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AyHyperbole
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Posted: Wed Jun 17th, 2009 04:56 pm |
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manonfire wrote: Tyrrho wrote:
yoki wrote: The fact is assholeonfire, there is no missing link. The "Missing Link" is a myth, created by who knows. Those who would adhere to the possibility of finding a missing link, do not understand the theory of evolution.
Man did not evolve from apes, but rather, man and apes had common ancestors. And hey, I am a creationist and not an evolutionist. But let us try a refute theories with intelligence rather than with ignorance and stupidity. One can not refute that of which one has no understanding.
I think it is understood by everyone here (even Hiram) that the term "missing link" is just another way of saying "common ancestor".
Nope, that's not what I'm saying. Apes are apes, birds are birds, and fish are fish. They are not my ancestors, and are not related in any way to humans.
Right, and the sun is a big flaming chariot being driven around the earth, and rain is God's tears, and crocodiles are ornery because they have so many teeth and no toothbrush. Gotcha.
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manonfire
Manofire
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Posted: Wed Jun 17th, 2009 05:47 pm |
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AyHyperbole wrote:
manonfire wrote: Tyrrho wrote:
yoki wrote: The fact is assholeonfire, there is no missing link. The "Missing Link" is a myth, created by who knows. Those who would adhere to the possibility of finding a missing link, do not understand the theory of evolution.
Man did not evolve from apes, but rather, man and apes had common ancestors. And hey, I am a creationist and not an evolutionist. But let us try a refute theories with intelligence rather than with ignorance and stupidity. One can not refute that of which one has no understanding.
I think it is understood by everyone here (even Hiram) that the term "missing link" is just another way of saying "common ancestor".
Nope, that's not what I'm saying. Apes are apes, birds are birds, and fish are fish. They are not my ancestors, and are not related in any way to humans.
Right, and the sun is a big flaming chariot being driven around the earth, and rain is God's tears, and crocodiles are ornery because they have so many teeth and no toothbrush. Gotcha.
Hell, you could be right, and I'm wrong. You could very well be the missing link, or at least one of them.
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yoki
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Posted: Wed Jun 17th, 2009 06:20 pm |
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manonfire wrote: Tyrrho wrote:
yoki wrote: The fact is assholeonfire, there is no missing link. The "Missing Link" is a myth, created by who knows. Those who would adhere to the possibility of finding a missing link, do not understand the theory of evolution.
Man did not evolve from apes, but rather, man and apes had common ancestors. And hey, I am a creationist and not an evolutionist. But let us try a refute theories with intelligence rather than with ignorance and stupidity. One can not refute that of which one has no understanding.
I think it is understood by everyone here (even Hiram) that the term "missing link" is just another way of saying "common ancestor".
Nope, that's not what I'm saying. Apes are apes, birds are birds, and fish are fish. They are not my ancestors, and are not related in any way to humans.
So Tyrrho, as you can see, Hiram does not understand. So exclude him next time, eh?
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