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PearlsSand2
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Posted: Mon Feb 9th, 2009 01:41 am |
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I'm deeply troubled because someone I know is facing two 6 year sentences for basically being a 'drug addict,' addicted to one of the worst drugs. In jail, he went through a horrible experience of cleaning out/withdrawals......and now this person tells me that he will commit suicide and die a free man instead of being sent to prison, since that is all the -authorities- are offering him....a very long time in a Federal prison.
This mess just got me to wondering about how this system is set-up, for such people, and the justice of it all (or lack thereof). So......the poll. Any comments too.
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WingedBeast
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Posted: Mon Feb 9th, 2009 02:00 am |
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The simple truth is that you can't win a war if it isn't against an enemy. All you'll wind up doing is creating enemies. That's exactly what the war on drugs does, it creates enemies and gives them an easy source of income.
Primary focus on treatment and a fair bit more honesty on the whole issue would do us all much more good.
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Merlin
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Posted: Mon Feb 9th, 2009 02:18 am |
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| I'm more interested in what you think should be done with your friend.
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PearlsSand2
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Posted: Mon Feb 9th, 2009 02:21 am |
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Right, treatment. That's what is missing and why the way it is now, is Unjust, I believe. Even when he was vomiting his guts out (things came out from "every orifice" as he described it) all they gave him was a blood pressure med, to keep that down, so when they would check, his blood pressure was -passing- so they did nothing more to help him, while in jail.
His physical suffering was great; he was in serious need of medical attention, but was kept in that jail cell with minimal monitering.
It's wrong--the way it is now, is just wrong for such people. He doesn't have a violent bone in his body, except for the harm he does to himself. Frankly, he has made everyone laugh around him (even my children) who love him dearly. He needs -help- (medical/emotional/spiritual) not prison.
But he is in a different state now but not too far. I'm trying to figure out how best to help him, now. If ever a miracle was needed, it is ~also, now.
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PearlsSand2
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Posted: Mon Feb 9th, 2009 02:38 am |
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Hi Merlin,
I've gone over the few options in my mind/heart. -With his mother's input too. We seem to agree on some things. She does not want her son to commit suicide.
He doesn't trust his "public defender" to even care about his case..."I'm just a number to her." -among her many cases...which is probably true. But the private attorneys I've contacted in that state want so much money...to represent him...going from $12,000 on up. One private attorney I found there does do pro-bono cases and I have contacted him via e-mail this weekend but haven't heard back -yet. His website quotes him as saying, he "does God's work." -So that sounded hopeful.  It was kind of an awkward letter to send to him, to impress upon him, "So do I, so take this case!"
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Aldaron
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Posted: Mon Feb 9th, 2009 04:29 am |
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Drug addiction is a medical problem and should be treated as such. I voted #3.
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Evelyn
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Posted: Mon Feb 9th, 2009 04:45 am |
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My answer is a simple No.
It should not be a crime at all. A person who is addicted may need medical or psychological treatment, but how does it make any sense to punish them for something that by definition is out of their control?
And no additional taxes are needed because if we stopped criminalizing non-violent drug offenders, we'd have money leftover, and prison is expensive to begin with.
SO i said Other because we could *save* money by having a more rational drug policy.
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Aldaron
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Posted: Mon Feb 9th, 2009 04:50 am |
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Evelyn wrote: My answer is a simple No.
It should not be a crime at all. A person who is addicted may need medical or psychological treatment, but how does it make any sense to punish them for something that by definition is out of their control?
And no additional taxes are needed because if we stopped criminalizing non-violent drug offenders, we'd have money leftover, and prison is expensive to begin with.
SO i said Other because we could *save* money by having a more rational drug policy.
I think I saw on Discovery or something the other night that about 25% (IIRC) of prisoners in the world are in US prisons. 
And people whine about Obama wanting to have public health care!
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PearlsSand2
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Posted: Mon Feb 9th, 2009 05:05 am |
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So how do we change it? I am planning to go with his mother to stand before the Judge, with him, when the time comes, unless he commits suicide in the meantime, which we are both fighting and trying to talk him out of, and to have hope, even now.
I've already written to the Sheriff there, who was gracious to forward my e-mail to him, while still in jail. I think I may need to go to that state and knock on some serious doors.
I may not have the money right now to defend this person, but I do have the love, and maybe that's all I ever really needed, anyway.
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WingedBeast
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Posted: Mon Feb 9th, 2009 05:13 am |
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I'm afraid the matter is, in large part, out of the judge's hands. Mandatory minimums for possession will not give him the option to sentence your friend to time in treatment.
The law itself needs to be changed. And, there's far too much political capital to be had in supporting tough penalties for possession. Challenging mandatory minimums, much less the war on drugs in general, requires too much spending of political capital.
I don't know what can be done for your friend in the short-term, but in the long-term what needs to happen is a change in the nature of the discourse about drug laws and drug addiction.
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Merlin
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Posted: Mon Feb 9th, 2009 06:49 am |
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I don't think drug addicts should be warehoused in prisons, but what is society going to do with them? Rehabs have a cure rate of approximately 3%.
Drugs use breeds crime. Crime breeds drug use.
Should the government supply addicts with their drug of choice to keep down crime? They're going to get high and comitt crimes anyway.
Should they build more rehab centers? The ones we have now don't work as it is. As long as somebody is taught that they'll be an addict for life, they'll do just that.
I see alcoholism and drug addiction to be a CHOICE that turns into a habit that ultimately leads to physical and mental illness.
The harsh reality is that no matter what anyone here thinks, society isn't going to do anything with convicted drug felons except to warehouse them in prisons. Look at the poor Phelps kid-- all he did was take a couple of hits off a bong and some asshole with a cellphone had the picture on the internet within hours: now he's been suspended from sports for 3 months and lost god knows how much money in endorsements. Is it fair? No. Is it reality? Yes.
I learned a long time ago that the stupid song lyrics, "don't do the crime if you can't do the time" are completely true. I've had so many friends end up in prison over drugs that I doubt if I could list all their names, and they all knew the risks. I almost ended up arrested so many times it wasn't funny, and if I had gone to prison, I would only have had myself to blame. I knew the risks and did it anyway.
I don't know what to tell you about your friend. I've had good buddies get popped and threaten suicide for months before they went to prison and none of them actually did it-- which is not to say your friend won't. All you can do is keep an eye on him and try to convince him that it could always be worse.
Is he more afraid of withdrawals or the incarceration itself? I didn't even shoot heroin because I'm needle phobic, I only smoked it and snorted it (mixed with cocaine) and when I quit, I spent days that all I did was puke and itch and have chills and then fever and then twitched and then puked again. And that was the good part, because cocaine withdrawals are actually worse-- you literally beat your head on the wall and the depressioin that comes down on you is worse than anything you can imagine. Oh.... and scientists have discovered the nifty fact that if a person has been a cocaine addict and created new receptor points in their brain, usually serotonin binds to them and they're ok-- let the person get depressed and their serotonin levels fall, and they go into crack withdrawal. For the rest of their life. Swell, huh?
But your friend can survive withdrawals, just like everybody else does.
It might be a good thing to get him off the street for awhile, pearls, because my list of dead friends is longer than the list of friends who went to prison. I just lost another one about 3 weeks ago, massive stroke from a coke binge. 41 years old.
While he's alive, there's hope.
Last edited on Mon Feb 9th, 2009 06:52 am by Merlin
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Paign
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Posted: Mon Feb 9th, 2009 01:00 pm |
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| I put other because there wasn't a reply that stuck with just plain "no." No, they should not be imprisoned; no, drugs should not be illegal; no, my mind is not changed by whether there is a rehab center built for them or how it's paid for.
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Paign
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Posted: Mon Feb 9th, 2009 01:01 pm |
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Evelyn wrote: My answer is a simple No.
Good answer, Evelyn! 
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Evelyn
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Posted: Mon Feb 9th, 2009 02:28 pm |
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Merlin, my point is that if a drug addict or an alcoholic or a Mormom commits a crime, robs a house or snatches a purse, send them to prison for that crime, sure. But not for the crime of the drugs they buy.
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Ronson
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Posted: Mon Feb 9th, 2009 02:29 pm |
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Last edited on Mon Aug 17th, 2009 08:35 pm by Ronson
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Merlin
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Posted: Mon Feb 9th, 2009 07:40 pm |
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It's pretty hard, Evelyn, for drug addicts to stay away from that there crime thing.
When Pearls says her friend is facing prison for "basically being a drug addict," what does that mean? He's charged with felony possession of a controlled substance? Intent to distribute? Breaking and Entering? Larceny? Unlawful Loitering?
Did a cop just walk up, search him, and find drugs?
We're only speculating if we decide that he got in trouble just because he used drugs. I'd suggest there's quite a bit more that went with the drug using. There always is.
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PearlsSand2
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Posted: Mon Feb 9th, 2009 08:43 pm |
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"When Pearls says her friend is facing prison for "basically being a drug addict," what does that mean? He's charged with felony possession of a controlled substance? Yes. Intent to distribute? Yes. Breaking and Entering? No. Larceny? No. Unlawful Loitering? No.
Did a cop just walk up, search him, and find drugs?"-Merlin
No, someone he knew asked him to get a certain amount for him. That someone was also just a 'personal ' user, but unknown to my 'friend' at the time, that someone had been busted and was working a deal out for himself with the cops, to turn over others who could get it. The whole thing was a set-up. It's not even like he was a distributor of the stuff, but doing a 'favor' for this other guy, so he thought.
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ToniLoryn
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Posted: Mon Feb 9th, 2009 10:46 pm |
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I don't think people who are addicted to drugs should be treated as criminals. I don't think it helps society and neither does it help the addict. If they're selling it, that's a bit different. But selling it, stealing from others and all that comes from drug use. If they HAVE to go to prison, i'd like to see non-violent "offenders" be put in an entirely different area where what they focus on is rehabilitating them and working on recovery. Working on the issues that caused them to turn to drugs in the first place. A place where they don't have to hide or be ashamed or lie anymore. Like on Celebrity Rehab. They can talk about it without shame or fear of being shamed. No more hiding, lying or covering up. They can be accepted there and once it can be brought out into the light, it can be dealt with.
Incidentally, our medical system is set up so as to encourage the purchasing of street narcotics. It's very difficult to get pain meds at the ER even if you really truly need them. They must be taught to look out for drug seekers and so everyone gets the same answer, "No." So those with broken bones, tooth aches and injuries are told to take ibuprofen or tylenol and if they know someone who is willing to sell them a few pain pills, i don't fault them for buying them. They shouldn't punish truly needy patients because some people are drug seekers. And i say, what the hell's the worst thing that could happen if they DID give drug seekers some pain meds? They get fifteen vicodin and then what? It's not like they can get a refill or go back again? It's all stupid if you ask me.
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Merlin
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Posted: Tue Feb 10th, 2009 02:17 am |
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God, Pearls, your friend is screwed now. Look.... anybody that's going to sell shit has to find out the rules of the game and how to hopefully keep from getting busted... keep the stuff in your trunk (everybody drives my car, I dunno how that got there) never break it up, and never trust ANYBODY... don't ever say anything on the phone, don't deal where you can be videotaped, don't meet anybody new unless they're personally recommended, don't do "favors"... and even then if you play, you pay. Most people get busted anyway. All it takes is one buyer to get tanked up on beers and their tongue start wagging to the UNDERCOVER COP sitting next to them in half the bars in town, especially strip clubs, and word gets around. Just refuse to front one guy and he'll get pissed off and rat you out. (Not to mention the moron driving away with their baggie who gets pulled over, taken to jail, and told that unless they rat out the dealer, they're going to prison-- for a loooong time.)
Your friend is lying to you, Pearls. Nobody can "get" shit unless they already GET SHIT. You don't just go into dealing as a one-time favor for somebody. Your friend was already dealing. Cops can't just have a CI walk up to somebody who doesn't deal and ask for something and then arrest the person when they give them the requested "favor."
On top of that, Narcotics have to have THREE confirmed buys by a CI, then go to a Judge and show probable cause for a search. Then they can search the person or locatioin and arrest the person if they find evidence. Felony intent to distribute or felony conspiracy to distribute can't result from a single buy.
Trust me that I know this one personally. I had cops bust into my house at 4 am-- nothing. I was pulled over driving half a dozen times-- nothing. I dropped off a delivery, came out and there was roadblock set up-- nothing. Friend's houses raided while I was there--nothing. I had friends get arrested, mysteriously leave jail the same night, and come up to me for one of those favors-- nothing. I had another friend want a similar favor-- nothing. One time a business partner disappeared for 3 days... I beeped him, drove across the street and hid behind a church and watched the pay phone-- with 8 minutes, an undercover unit had blocked off each exit, and they were looking around to find who had called the guy. He had bought 3 kilos of cocaine from undercover DEA because he was an IDIOT. That tipped me off enough to go home and get everything out of the house, and here they came, 4 am... first spotlights on my bedroom window and then wham. Nothing there. Not even a used baggie. I'm sure he rolled on me before he even got in the cop car.
Dealers can't trust ANYBODY. Everything is a scam. Everybody will try to cheat you. Everybody is either a rival or an enemy. Everybody will roll on you to save their own ass. Very few people go down and eat it. That's just the way it is.
The cops got their revenge when Cyndi was shot-- they stood there and looked in my face while they let her killer walk away. But trust me that I know how the system works. It was my life for a long time.
So mister drug addict friend is susre as hell going to prison but might get brownie points if he admits he has a problem and throws himself on the mercy of the Court and asks to be put into Rehab.
Tell him the truth-- he knew the risks, so he needs to stop crying and make the best of it-- do his time and try to walk out a better person than he was when he walked in.
You play, you pay. he knew that.
Last edited on Tue Feb 10th, 2009 04:29 am by Merlin
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Merlin
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Posted: Tue Feb 10th, 2009 03:15 am |
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what the hell's the worst thing that could happen if they DID give drug seekers some pain meds?
A journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step.
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