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Merlin
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Posted: Sun Nov 30th, 2008 08:03 am |
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Catholics believe that if they die with an unconfessed mortal sin, they will go to hell. Or to purgatory for a long time. They change their minds a lot about the two. But needless to say, catholics freak out over mortal sins.
Look what a priest is doing to frighten and control his parish:
(The protestants are just as bad when they tell church members that anyone who doesn't agree that homosexuality is a sin is going to burn in hell. They don't have to BE a homo, just saying it isn't a sin is enough to fry them forever.)
MODESTO, Calif. (CBS) ― A Roman Catholic priest has told parishioners they should confess if they voted for Barack Obama because the president-elect supports abortion.
Voting for Obama could be a mortal sin, says Father Joseph Illo, of St. Joseph's Catholic Church in Modesto, California. The reverend sent a letter to parishioners telling them they need to repent before taking communion if they voted for a pro-abortion candidate.
Rev. Illo says his parishioners at the Modesto church shouldn't risk losing their "state of grace" by receiving communion sacrilegiously. He delivered the message in a Nov. 21 letter and during mass.
Illo spoke on the issue at mass before sending the letter to more than 17,000 members of St. Joseph's. In the letter, Illo poses the question, "Have I spoken out of turn?"
Some parishioners seem to think so, saying politics shouldn't be preached from the pulpit, reports CBS station KOVR-TV in Sacramento. Others agree with the priest's move.
"It's certainly a mistake to vote for a candidate that's very pro abortion," Illo told KOVR. "It could be a mortal sin," the priest added.
In an interview this week with the Modesto Bee, Illo says he sent the letter because Catholic teaching requires that people go to confession when they commit a mortal sin.
During the 2008 campaign, many bishops told Catholic politicians and voters that abortion should be the most important consideration in deciding which candidate to back.
Last edited on Sun Nov 30th, 2008 08:05 am by Merlin
____________________
"Christians should go to church."
"... it would be better for her to tie a heavy rock around her neck and jump into the midddle of deep bayou than it would to lay a heavy guilt-trip on any of God's little ones . . ."
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NorrinRadd
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Posted: Sun Nov 30th, 2008 10:08 pm |
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Good. Nice to see a pastor with enough care for the well-being of his flock that he doesn't bow at the altar of PC.
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"I reject your reality and substitute my own." -- Mythbuster Adam Savage
"Logic: The art of being wrong with confidence." -- ComputerGear T-Shirt
"Well THAT was a slap and a tickle!" -- William the Bloody
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Merlin
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Posted: Sun Nov 30th, 2008 10:12 pm |
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Do YOU think people will go to hell for voting for Obama?
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"Christians should go to church."
"... it would be better for her to tie a heavy rock around her neck and jump into the midddle of deep bayou than it would to lay a heavy guilt-trip on any of God's little ones . . ."
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AyHyperbole
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Posted: Sun Nov 30th, 2008 10:40 pm |
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About 54% of Catholics voted for Obama, so if their leadership is trying to convice them not to vote for pro-choice candidates, they're doing a pretty lousy job.
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tiny thinker
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Posted: Sun Nov 30th, 2008 10:58 pm |
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The Church already publicly corrected and apologized for the comments of a priest who tried to make the same political statement in South Carolina. From what I read US Catholic Bishops did argue that abortion was a crucial issue but they also strongly stated that Catholics should be wary of single-issue voting.
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Life does not accommodate you; it shatters you. Every seed destroys its container, or else there would be no fruition.-Florida Scott-Maxwell
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manonfire
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Posted: Mon Dec 1st, 2008 03:50 am |
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AyHyperbole wrote:
About 54% of Catholics voted for Obama, so if their leadership is trying to convice them not to vote for pro-choice candidates, they're doing a pretty lousy job.
The Catholic church leadership should be informing all their flock that they are not on the cafeteria plan, where they pick and choose what they want. They can choose the whole package, including anti-abortion, or choose another religion.
I'm also fed up with PC crap.
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Hyper, Limana, A2, and Evelyn, put your glasses down, and step away from the Kool-Aid!
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Merlin
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Posted: Mon Dec 1st, 2008 04:04 am |
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The Catholic church leadership should be informing all their flock that they are not on the cafeteria plan, where they pick and choose what they want. How are they different than you are? You pick and choose too.
I'm also fed up with PC crap. I don't think "PC" is the correct description for forcing church members to vote a certain way by threatening them with hell if they don't.
____________________
"Christians should go to church."
"... it would be better for her to tie a heavy rock around her neck and jump into the midddle of deep bayou than it would to lay a heavy guilt-trip on any of God's little ones . . ."
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manonfire
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Posted: Mon Dec 1st, 2008 04:04 am |
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Merlin wrote:
Catholics believe that if they die with an unconfessed mortal sin, they will go to hell. Or to purgatory for a long time. They change their minds a lot about the two. But needless to say, catholics freak out over mortal sins.
Look what a priest is doing to frighten and control his parish:
(The protestants are just as bad when they tell church members that anyone who doesn't agree that homosexuality is a sin is going to burn in hell. They don't have to BE a homo, just saying it isn't a sin is enough to fry them forever.)
MODESTO, Calif. (CBS) ― A Roman Catholic priest has told parishioners they should confess if they voted for Barack Obama because the president-elect supports abortion.
Voting for Obama could be a mortal sin, says Father Joseph Illo, of St. Joseph's Catholic Church in Modesto, California. The reverend sent a letter to parishioners telling them they need to repent before taking communion if they voted for a pro-abortion candidate.
Rev. Illo says his parishioners at the Modesto church shouldn't risk losing their "state of grace" by receiving communion sacrilegiously. He delivered the message in a Nov. 21 letter and during mass.
Illo spoke on the issue at mass before sending the letter to more than 17,000 members of St. Joseph's. In the letter, Illo poses the question, "Have I spoken out of turn?"
Some parishioners seem to think so, saying politics shouldn't be preached from the pulpit, reports CBS station KOVR-TV in Sacramento. Others agree with the priest's move.
"It's certainly a mistake to vote for a candidate that's very pro abortion," Illo told KOVR. "It could be a mortal sin," the priest added.
In an interview this week with the Modesto Bee, Illo says he sent the letter because Catholic teaching requires that people go to confession when they commit a mortal sin.
During the 2008 campaign, many bishops told Catholic politicians and voters that abortion should be the most important consideration in deciding which candidate to back.
(The protestants are just as bad when they tell church members that anyone who doesn't agree that homosexuality is a sin is going to burn in hell. They don't have to BE a homo, just saying it isn't a sin is enough to fry them forever.)
Hiram: Merlin, I think that any rational thinker on this board knows that you are subject to hyperbole when trying to make your case.
I have never-ever heard anyone in the protestant churches I have attended tell people that they are going to hell if they don't believe homosexuality is a sin. Christians already know that it's a sin.
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Hyper, Limana, A2, and Evelyn, put your glasses down, and step away from the Kool-Aid!
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Merlin
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Posted: Mon Dec 1st, 2008 04:08 am |
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Merlin, I think that any rational thinker on this board knows that you are subject to hyperbole when trying to make your case. You ever read Dobson, hiram? Not only does he tell the parents that they MADE thier child gay, but he tells christians that they cannot be christian if they say homosexuality is not a sin. Look it up yourself if you don't believe me. & no, hiram, christians do not automatically consider homosexuality a sin. The only ones who do are the ones who have taken the word of the gay-hating ministers who lied and distorted scripture to promote their anti-gay agenda.
Like Ted Haggart.
The bible never once said homosexuality is a sin.
____________________
"Christians should go to church."
"... it would be better for her to tie a heavy rock around her neck and jump into the midddle of deep bayou than it would to lay a heavy guilt-trip on any of God's little ones . . ."
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manonfire
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Posted: Mon Dec 1st, 2008 04:18 am |
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Merlin wrote:
Merlin, I think that any rational thinker on this board knows that you are subject to hyperbole when trying to make your case. You ever read Dobson, hiram? Not only does he tell the parents that they MADE thier child gay, but he tells christians that they cannot be christian if they say homosexuality is not a sin. Look it up yourself if you don't believe me. & no, hiram, christians do not automatically consider homosexuality a sin. The only ones who do are the ones who have taken the word of the gay-hating ministers who lied and distorted scripture to promote their anti-gay agenda.
Like Ted Haggart.
The bible never once said homosexuality is a sin.
Any Christian that has spent a little time reading God's word in the Holy Bible knows that homosexuality is a sin. Have you ever read the passage that it's a sin for a man to lie down with another man?
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Hyper, Limana, A2, and Evelyn, put your glasses down, and step away from the Kool-Aid!
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manonfire
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Posted: Mon Dec 1st, 2008 04:23 am |
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"What does the Bible say about homosexuality? Is homosexuality a sin?"
Answer: The Bible consistently tells us that homosexual activity is a sin (Genesis 19:1-13; Leviticus 18:22; Romans 1:26-27; 1 Corinthians 6:9). Romans 1:26-27 teaches specifically that homosexuality is a result of denying and disobeying God. When a person continues in sin and disbelief, the Bible tells us that God “gives them over” to even more wicked and depraved sin in order to show them the futility and hopelessness of life apart from God. 1 Corinthians 6:9 proclaims that homosexual “offenders” will not inherit the kingdom of God.
The Bible tells us that a person becomes a homosexual because of sin (Romans 1:24-27).
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Hyper, Limana, A2, and Evelyn, put your glasses down, and step away from the Kool-Aid!
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AyHyperbole
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Posted: Mon Dec 1st, 2008 04:27 am |
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manonfire wrote: Romans 1:26-27 teaches specifically that homosexuality is a result of denying and disobeying God. When a person continues in sin and disbelief, the Bible tells us that God “gives them over” to even more wicked and depraved sin in order to show them the futility and hopelessness of life apart from God.
And this is a section of the Bible that is demonstrably false. I've known several people who have been devout Christians and have not been able to understand why they are unable to be attracted to the opposite sex and can only be attracted to their own.
Eventually, they come to realize that the Bible is lying to them: homosexuality is not a punishment for impiety, and piety is no defense against homosexuality. And then, they have to reinterpret the way they look at their religion. Some conclude that Paul's words were not divinely inspired, since obviously there's no Word of God saying that they are: it was men who decided that Paul spoke for God, and men are fallible.
Others conclude that the entire religion is fiction. Mileage varies.
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manonfire
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Posted: Mon Dec 1st, 2008 04:46 am |
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AyHyperbole wrote:
manonfire wrote: Romans 1:26-27 teaches specifically that homosexuality is a result of denying and disobeying God. When a person continues in sin and disbelief, the Bible tells us that God “gives them over” to even more wicked and depraved sin in order to show them the futility and hopelessness of life apart from God.
And this is a section of the Bible that is demonstrably false. I've known several people who have been devout Christians and have not been able to understand why they are unable to be attracted to the opposite sex and can only be attracted to their own.
Eventually, they come to realize that the Bible is lying to them: homosexuality is not a punishment for impiety, and piety is no defense against homosexuality. And then, they have to reinterpret the way they look at their religion. Some conclude that Paul's words were not divinely inspired, since obviously there's no Word of God saying that they are: it was men who decided that Paul spoke for God, and men are fallible.
Others conclude that the entire religion is fiction. Mileage varies.
Hyper knows better than God. This is the arrogance that Carol was trying to warn you zombies about.
I hate to say this, but I don't think you are going to make it in AA.
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Hyper, Limana, A2, and Evelyn, put your glasses down, and step away from the Kool-Aid!
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Merlin
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Posted: Mon Dec 1st, 2008 04:49 am |
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Have you ever read the passage that it's a sin for a man to lie down with another man?
It doesn't say that, hiram. It says that is is abomination for a man to lie the lyings of a woman with a man.
In other words, the only wrong thing about the homogenital sex act is that the receptive male act is considered abomination-- a ritual taboo for jews-- but not a sin. And it doesn't even mention the male Top.
____________________
"Christians should go to church."
"... it would be better for her to tie a heavy rock around her neck and jump into the midddle of deep bayou than it would to lay a heavy guilt-trip on any of God's little ones . . ."
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Merlin
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Posted: Mon Dec 1st, 2008 04:51 am |
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The only thing that Romans says about homosexuality is that it is a sin for heterosexual men to experiment with gay sex out of rebellion because it leads them into idolatry.
I bet Hype is pissing himself with fear NOW ! He doesn't agree with you about homosexuality, so he will fail at AA! One follows the other like the night the day!
hiram, you're a damned fool.
M.
Last edited on Mon Dec 1st, 2008 04:52 am by Merlin
____________________
"Christians should go to church."
"... it would be better for her to tie a heavy rock around her neck and jump into the midddle of deep bayou than it would to lay a heavy guilt-trip on any of God's little ones . . ."
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manonfire
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Posted: Mon Dec 1st, 2008 04:58 am |
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Merlin wrote:
Have you ever read the passage that it's a sin for a man to lie down with another man?
It doesn't say that, hiram. It says that is is abomination for a man to lie the lyings of a woman with a man.
In other words, the only wrong thing about the homogenital sex act is that the receptive male act is considered abomination-- a ritual taboo for jews-- but not a sin. And it doesn't even mention the male Top.
Lev: 22 “ ‘Do not lie with a man as one lies with a woman; that is detestable.
What were you saying, Merlin?
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Hyper, Limana, A2, and Evelyn, put your glasses down, and step away from the Kool-Aid!
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AyHyperbole
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Posted: Mon Dec 1st, 2008 04:59 am |
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manonfire wrote: AyHyperbole wrote:
manonfire wrote: Romans 1:26-27 teaches specifically that homosexuality is a result of denying and disobeying God. When a person continues in sin and disbelief, the Bible tells us that God “gives them over” to even more wicked and depraved sin in order to show them the futility and hopelessness of life apart from God.
And this is a section of the Bible that is demonstrably false. I've known several people who have been devout Christians and have not been able to understand why they are unable to be attracted to the opposite sex and can only be attracted to their own.
Eventually, they come to realize that the Bible is lying to them: homosexuality is not a punishment for impiety, and piety is no defense against homosexuality. And then, they have to reinterpret the way they look at their religion. Some conclude that Paul's words were not divinely inspired, since obviously there's no Word of God saying that they are: it was men who decided that Paul spoke for God, and men are fallible.
Others conclude that the entire religion is fiction. Mileage varies.
Hyper knows better than God. This is the arrogance that Carol was trying to warn you zombies about.
I hate to say this, but I don't think you are going to make it in AA.
I don't think that the higher powers of the universe make it a point to lie to us, which is why I do not think Romans is the voice of God.
Do I know better than God? Of course not. I am absolutely helpless and ignorant before the glory that is our reality and all the forces that shape it.
But so was Paul - and he doesn't seem to have entirely figured that out.
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manonfire
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Posted: Mon Dec 1st, 2008 05:04 am |
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Merlin wrote:
The only thing that Romans says about homosexuality is that it is a sin for heterosexual men to experiment with gay sex out of rebellion because it leads them into idolatry.
I bet Hype is pissing himself with fear NOW ! He doesn't agree with you about homosexuality, so he will fail at AA! One follows the other like the night the day!
hiram, you're a damned fool.
M.
Hiram: Since you ignored all the scriptures I provided to prove you were wrong about homosexuality not being a sin, you can ignore or try to explain away what's written below.
What was the sin of Sodom and Gomorrah? It is abundantly clear that homosexuality was the primary evil. The biblical account of Sodom and Gomorrah is recorded in Genesis chapters 18-19. Genesis chapter 18 records the LORD and two angels coming to speak with Abraham. The LORD reiterated His promise to Abraham that he would have a son through Sarah. The LORD also informed Abraham that "the outcry against Sodom and Gomorrah is so great and their sin so grievous." Verses 22-33 record Abraham pleading with the LORD to have mercy on Sodom and Gomorrah because Abraham's nephew, Lot, and his family lived in Sodom.
Genesis chapter 19 records the two angels, disguised as human men, visiting Sodom and Gomorrah. Lot met the angels in the city square and urged them to stay at his house. The angels agreed. The Bible then informs us, "Before they had gone to bed, all the men from every part of the city of Sodom — both young and old — surrounded the house. They called to Lot, 'Where are the men who came to you tonight? Bring them out to us so that we can have sex with them.'" The angels then proceed to blind all the men of Sodom and Gomorrah and urge Lot and his family to flee from the cities to escape the wrath that God was about to deliver. Lot and his family flee the city, and then "the LORD rained down burning sulfur on Sodom and Gomorrah — from the LORD out of the heavens. Thus he overthrew those cities and the entire plain, including all those living in the cities — and also the vegetation in the land."
The men of Sodom and Gomorrah, thinking that the visiting angels were men, wanted to have sex with them. Those who attempt to explain away the biblical condemnations of homosexuality claim that the sin of Sodom and Gomorrah was inhospitality. While the men of Sodom and Gomorrah were certainly being inhospitable, that clearly was not all. The men of Sodom and Gomorrah desired to perform homosexual gang rape on the angels. Also, God never declared inhospitality to be an abomination to Him, while Leviticus 18:22 makes God’s view of homosexuality clear: “Do not lie with a man as one lies with a woman; that is detestable.”
While Sodom and Gomorrah were surely guilty of many other horrendous sins, homosexuality was the reason God poured fiery sulfur on the cities, completely destroying them and all of their inhabitants. To this day, the area where Sodom and Gomorrah were located remains a desolate wasteland. Sodom and Gomorrah serve as a powerful example of how God feels about sin in general, and homosexuality specifically.
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Hyper, Limana, A2, and Evelyn, put your glasses down, and step away from the Kool-Aid!
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Merlin
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Posted: Mon Dec 1st, 2008 05:21 am |
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Lev: 22 “ ‘Do not lie with a man as one lies with a woman; that is detestable. Are you even aware that the words you quote were not written in English? The literal translation is, "do not lie the lyings of a woman with a man, it is abomination." It refers to the penetrative partner in the sex act, and only says the act of that recepetive partner is abomination, not sin.
What were you saying, Merlin? I said that your bible says that only the receptive male in a homogenital act is considered something taboo for jews, and never sin.
It isn't my fault if you believe the bible was written in English.
____________________
"Christians should go to church."
"... it would be better for her to tie a heavy rock around her neck and jump into the midddle of deep bayou than it would to lay a heavy guilt-trip on any of God's little ones . . ."
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Merlin
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Posted: Mon Dec 1st, 2008 05:31 am |
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What was the sin of Sodom and Gomorrah Well, let's ask the prophet Ezekial:
Ezekiel 16:49(New International Version)
49 " 'Now this was the sin of your sister Sodom: She and her daughters were arrogant, overfed and unconcerned; they did not help the poor and needy.
WHAT??? Did Ezekial FORGET to mention homosexuality????
Let's not stop there.... let's see what the rest of the Bible says about Sodom:
- Deuteronomy 29:17-26 - Idolatry and images to false gods
- Deuteronomy 32:32-38 - Idolatry
- Isaiah 1:9-23 - Murder, greed, theft, rebellion, covetousness
- Isaiah 3:8-15 - Mistreating the poor
- Isaiah 3:11-19 - Arrogance
- Jeremiah 23:10-14 - Adultery, lying by priests and prophets
- Jeremiah 49:16-18 - Pride of the heart
- Jeremiah 50:2-40 - Idolatry and pride
- Lamentations 4:3-6 - Cruelty and failure to care for the young and poor
- Ezekiel 16:49-50 - Behold, this was the iniquity of thy sister Sodom, pride, fullness of bread, and abundance of idleness was in her and in her daughters, neither did she strengthen the hand of the poor and needy. And they were haughty, and committed abomination before me: therefore I took them away as I saw good.
- Amos 4:1-11 - Oppression and mistreating the poor
- Zephaniah 2:8 - Pride
What the HELL? STILL no mention of homosexuality????
I know, let's ask Jesus! If anybody will know, he will !
Luke 17:26-29
26 And as it was in the days of Noah, so it will be also in the days of the Son of Man: 27 They ate, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, and the flood came and destroyed them all. 28 Likewise as it was also in the days of Lot: They ate, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they built; 29 but on the day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven and destroyed them all.
UH-OH, it seems Jesus forgot to mention homosexuality too.
That's -- let's see-- 13 references to the sin of Sodom, and not a single one of them mentions homosexuality.
But you know more than the Bible, right hiram?
Give up already.
____________________
"Christians should go to church."
"... it would be better for her to tie a heavy rock around her neck and jump into the midddle of deep bayou than it would to lay a heavy guilt-trip on any of God's little ones . . ."
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