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emmylou
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Posted: Mon Oct 5th, 2009 03:03 am |
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I found this on a Jewish website. "Shaytel" means "wig"
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Burn the Shaytel
Our opinion is that shaytel's are prohibited in every shape and form and are a leading method of the Erev Rav to defile the nation of Yisroel.
There were certain leading Rabbis in the past who permitted the use of Shatyles. This was due to the fact that the Shatyles of those times were ugly and bore little resemblance to human hair. Many people wrongly use those opinions to justify their use of modern shatyles.
This article is to prove that even the Rabbanim who permitted shaytels in past generations would prohibit the shaytels used in current times. Below are quotes from well known Chareidi Rabbis in unified opposition against the use of modern shaytels.
The wigs in the past generations were very crude and often resembled foreign fur laying on the head. Today's wigs are created using very sophisticated technologies and look exactly like real hair. In addition to the realistic look today's shaytels are often cut and styled to resemble the impure, immodest and inappropriate styles of modern culture.
Quotes from famous Charaidi Rabbis:
Rabbi Shlomo Zalman Aurbach
In the past when a woman wore a shaytel, it was noticeable to all, even from a distance that it was a wig. It had a look that resembled straw like fibers of flax. Today due to our great sins one can not differentiate if it is a wig or not. Therefore the wearing of shaytels is abominable in my eyes. This can be comparable to a person who makes every effort to make his food appear as if it were traif. In a similar way these women make every effort to make their hair appear as if it was not covered, therefore this is very disgusting in my eyes.
Rabbi Shalom Shabadran
The opinions permitting the use of shaytels were only referring to shaytels that looked like goat hair. Today's shaytels make married women look single or as if they walk around with an uncovered head, who permitted such a great act of pritzut?! This is chutzpah that goes outside all boundaries! Such a thing was never permitted by the Rabbis. It is not believable that any Rav or any G-d fearing person would come to allow such an impure thing.
Rabbi Yosef Lyes (student of the Chazon Ish.)
In Europe there were many women who refused to even wear a shaytel. The shaytels of those days looked like a crude glob of hair, the wigs of that generation were ugly and much worse than hair.
Rabbi Shmuel Halevi Vasner
Even t he most sophisticated wigs sixty years ago that were found in the modern city of Vienna, were recognizable from a great distance. From far away it could be seen that they were not natural hair. The daughters of Yisroel need to be extremely careful with the commandment of covering their head which is a D’oraysa. For then sake of the holiness of the souls of the Jewish nation they must be very Tznius. They must not, Heaven forbid wear the various modern wigs that are no different then walking with an uncovered head. Unfortunately due to our many sins, many women covering their hair do not look at all like a Charaidi women only like empty street woman. She does not look like a bas Yisrael and not like a wife of a ben torah instead she is like a daughter of Paris.
Rabbi Chaim Kanievsky
The reason previous Rabbis permitted shaytels was because one could tell the difference. If one can not tell the difference he should be stringent.
When he was showed a number of modern shaytels he said “Such shaytels the permitting Rabbis were not talking about and the Poskim never argued about them. Shaytels that have the look of natural hair are prohibited due to Maris Ayin even the wigs that do not look fully natural, if due to their shape they cause men to look and have impure thought, the Rabbis of our generation must prohibit their use".
The Chofetz Chaim
Mishnah Berurah brings down both opinions and did not conclude between the two. However in his sefer Geder Olam it is obvious that Mitpachat is preferable.
The Chazan Ish and the Steipler
Preferred the use of a Mitpachat as is proven from the Staipels decision not to buy his daughters shatyles for their wedding. He also instructed Rabbi G’dalya Nadel student of the Chazan Ish against them.
The Brisker Rav
Preface the Mitpachat as testified to by his son Rabbi Dovid Saloveitchik in the name of his father “the heter of the Shaytel is very weak.”
Rabbi Menachem Shach
Preferred a Mitpachat as testified by many Talmidei Chachamim. He also insisted that his wife wears only a Mitpachat and not a Shaytel.
Opinion of Rabbi Shlomo Zalman Aurbach as testified by his son Rabbi Shmuel Aurbach.
“My father wanted very much that the daughters of Yisroel will cover their heads specifically with a Mitpachat. He suffered great pain due when shaytels became wide spread throughout the jewish community.
Rabbi Yosef Shalom Elyshev
It is a clear thing that covering the head with a Mitpachat is far better then using a shaytel. Rabbi Elyashov blesses and strongly encourages all the women who make the change. He gave permission to spread his words “that today shaytels are horrible.”
Rabbi Nissim Karlitz
In a letter he write “To the pure daughters of Yisroel, fortunate are you that you sanctified the name of heaven. Our heart was very happy that many women accepted upon themselves to go back to the original tradition of the jewish nation and cover their head with a Mitpachat instead of a Shaytel, since most of the new shaytels do not meet the requirements of tznius.
The Rabbi of Visnitz
“I am coming to strengthen those strong women that have changed from a Shaytel to a Mitpachat and I am blessing them.”
Rabbi Shmuel Aurbach
“I have already made famous the great element which is one of the foundations of the holiness and purity of the Jewish nation, the beauty and charisma of the daughters of Israel. That Jewish women should cover their heads with a mitpachat. Daughters of Yisroel be strong, do not be embarrassed from those who ridicule and weaken you. Return the pride of beauty and Tznius to your heads and you will be blessed with fulfillment and peace of holiness.
Rabbi Dun Segal
We see regarding the shaytels that Hashem is having mercy on and circumvents great causes to prevent it. Right now Heaven is crying out “pull away from Avodah Zorah.”
It is clear that we must improve our actions in this area. Especially since we see so many accidents heaven forbid, this is not simple, it must be a demand from heaven to not wear shaytels.
Many men approach me and say that they fall to tests of temptation from religious Charadi women that are walking around in these shaytels and clothing. This is horrible! Who can take upon himself the responsibility of one impure thought! A thought of Aishes Ish is like fire, we are witnessed to the destruction of many holy things in recent times Givald!!! We must fix and prevent the shaytel problem!
Rabbi Sender Arlinger
Today Shaytels that are not kosher and Tznauah have become widespread. These arouse the Yetzer Hara even more then a woman's natural hair. Proof to this is that even non jewish woman wear them for style. It comes out that the whole reason the Torah commanded us to cover the hair for tzniut has become nullified. It seems clear that all the earlier Poskim that permitted the use of shaytel, would today completely retract their Heter and would surely implement a number of boundaries to prevent the use of these shaytels. The shaytels they did permit were not anywhere near the shaytels that exist now a days.
Conclusion:
The opinion of the leading Chareidi Rabbis is to use a Mitpachat and not a shaytel.
Here are a number of reasons to use a Mitpachat instead of a shaytel…
One fulfills the opinions of many poskim that forbade the use of shaytels completely.
It is easier to prevent hair from sticking out. Even if hair does stick out, the woman notices it and can fix it as opposed to wearing a shaytel where she does not even feel it. Even if some hair does stick with a Mitpachat it look ugly as opposed to a shaytel where it adds to the beauty, thereby and brings about the course of the Zohar.
A woman will be saved from wearing modern shaytels that are completely forbidden according to halacha under every opinion.
A person will be save from the sever sin of Avodah Zarah which is very common in shaytels. The Rabbis already warned that the Hechsharim on the shaytels claiming they are free of Indian Idolatry are very shaky.
Wearing a Mitpachat prevents a Chiulul Hashem when non religious people see Charadim with shaytels that are nicer then natural hair. They understand from this that the Torah can be bent according to personal lusts and desires.
Mitpachats are much cheaper than shaytels, give the extra money to tzaedaka.
They are also more comfortable in the summer and the heat.
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limana
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Posted: Mon Oct 5th, 2009 03:22 am |
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| Even the Rabbis don't agree, and a Jewish woman is free to choose which of them to follow. I would find it much harder to be a Muslim woman than a Jewish woman. But really, why would I care?
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Merlin
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Posted: Mon Oct 5th, 2009 03:59 am |
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What do you expect from a religion that insists that when couples have sex, the woman has to be completely covered and the man has to stick his dick through a hole in a sheet so that he doesn't touch his own wife.
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met
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Posted: Mon Oct 5th, 2009 04:13 am |
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Merlin wrote: What do you expect from a religion that insists that when couples have sex, the woman has to be completely covered and the man has to stick his dick through a hole in a sheet so that he doesn't touch his own wife.
u better document that one Merl!!!
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emmylou
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Posted: Mon Oct 5th, 2009 04:23 am |
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The bottom line for Jewish women and Muslim women is that the hair must be covered. The difference between the two is only in the details. Depending on what her rabbi decrees, a Jewish woman might wear a wig, or may have to wear a "mitpachat", which is a cloth head covering, as wigs are not allowed by some rabbis. In 2005, many Jewish women burned their natural-hair wigs because they found out that the hair came from the hair of Indian Hindu women, and were deemed unkosher by certain rabbis. They switched to artificial-hair wigs or wore cloth instead. But their hair stayed covered nonetheless.
Whether Muslim women have freedom of choice between scarves or wigs is beyond me, but I'm guessing that Muslim women probably follow the decrees of their personal imams, the way Jewish women follow the decrees of their personal rabbis. In either religion, hair must be covered, and a male religious leader is the one who ultimately decides in which fashion it is to be covered.
I don't know why you would or wouldn't care. There are other religious beliefs besides Christianity and Islam and nobody here seems to know anything about Judaism so I thought I'd switch it up a little since this place is very stale these days.
Judaism is a very strange religion. It's more similar to Islam than it is to Christianity, yet many Christians loathe Islam and think Judaism is somehow holier than Christianity! Go figure.
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emmylou
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Posted: Mon Oct 5th, 2009 04:34 am |
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Here you can see a wig in action. This woman's father is up on multiple charges of child labor abuse and illegal immigrant abuse. Her husband is up on charges of child sexual abuse. She's trying to get money for her father's legal defense.
http://vimeo.com/6743394Last edited on Mon Oct 5th, 2009 04:36 am by emmylou
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Merlin
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Posted: Mon Oct 5th, 2009 04:35 am |
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Chassids swear they don't, others swear they do.
I find judaism, especially lubavitcher judaism, to be a bizarre and repulsive religion. Deal with it.
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emmylou
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Posted: Mon Oct 5th, 2009 04:39 am |
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| My friend's daughter is married to a Hassidic rabbi. She says the sheet thing is true.
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emmylou
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Posted: Mon Oct 5th, 2009 05:07 am |
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By multiple charges of violations of child labor laws, I mean 9,000 charges. Sholom Rabushkin, her father, was the CEO of Agriprocessors, the largest kosher meatpacking plant in the USA. I'm not even going to get into the animal cruelty issues involved in the case, although Temple Grandin, animal welfare expert extraordinaire, had a lot to say about it. Her husband, Yaakov Weiss, has been arrested on charges of sexual abuse of a 13-year-old boy.
I'd say the wig is artificial hair, and not that of a goy Indian woman.Last edited on Mon Oct 5th, 2009 05:14 am by emmylou
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emmylou
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Posted: Mon Oct 5th, 2009 06:07 am |
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| And that's what's important, to these people.
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met
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Posted: Mon Oct 5th, 2009 03:59 pm |
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emmylou wrote: By multiple charges of violations of child labor laws, I mean 9,000 charges. Sholom Rabushkin, her father, was the CEO of Agriprocessors, the largest kosher meatpacking plant in the USA. I'm not even going to get into the animal cruelty issues involved in the case, although Temple Grandin, animal welfare expert extraordinaire, had a lot to say about it. Her husband, Yaakov Weiss, has been arrested on charges of sexual abuse of a 13-year-old boy.
I'd say the wig is artificial hair, and not that of a goy Indian woman.
the Indian woman would prob'ly call the Jewish woman a gori 
Last edited on Mon Oct 5th, 2009 04:07 pm by met
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met
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Posted: Mon Oct 5th, 2009 04:07 pm |
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otoh emm, what makes u think it has anything to do with the religion? ... people do what they want and exploit the weaker no matter what their religion tells them.... case in point, Sikhism...
the founder of Sikhism, Nanak, produced some of the most clear assertions of gendre-equality in any spiritual teachings anywhere:
In Sikh tradition, there is no written or remembered authority, which denies women equal standing with men. This verse by Guru Nanak is the standard marker for gender equality: "Man is born from a woman, conceived in a woman, engaged and married to a woman . . . Kings are born from women, how can women be bad? From a woman, a woman is born. Without a woman, there is no one."
... and yet, at about 78.9, the state of Punjab in India, the heartland of Sikhism, has the lowest male-female ratio - the standard statistical marker of gender-inequality - in the entire world ...
.... "sure is tough being a Sikh woman"
Last edited on Mon Oct 5th, 2009 04:08 pm by met
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“Hum tum ek kamre meins band ho, aur chaabi kho jaaye”
-from Bobby
o Dir. Raj Kapoor. 1973. R.K. Films Ltd.
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emmylou
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Posted: Mon Oct 5th, 2009 08:53 pm |
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Exactly. Religion is a bullshit veneer. The sad thing is some people are born into it, and some are foolish enough or desperate enough to buy into it. Religious leaders are the problem, not the (for the most part) good-hearted people who are in them.
I'm sure it sucks to be a Sikh woman as well. I'd hate to be a woman born into any religious cult. Christians don't feel that Sikhs are somehow "special", "chosen", or "closer" to God than they themselves are, however. They don't feel that God has a separate "covenant" with Sikhs. They do, however, feel this way about Jews. And Jews have some crazy-ass beliefs and practices. And most people don't even know about them.
So if you ever get a crazy idea in your head that Jews are somehow "special" to God, please realize that they are just like all the other cults out there; the only difference is in the details.
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Merlin
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Posted: Mon Oct 5th, 2009 09:26 pm |
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My MOST favorite jewish custom is the practice of of going to Temple on Yom Kippur, to formally say the Kol Nidre:
"All personal vows we are likely to make, all personal oaths and pledges we are likely to take between this Yom Kippur and the next Yom Kippur, we publicly renounce. Let them all be relinquished and abandoned, null and void, neither firm nor established. Let our personal vows, pledges and oaths be considered neither vows nor pledges nor oaths."
Of course jews say it doesn't really mean what we THINK it does:
"Though the context makes it perfectly obvious that no vows or obligations towards others are implied, there have been many who were misled into believing that by means of this formula all their vows and oaths are annulled."
Uhhhh.... could that be because they publically say they are going to anull them???? Right, it only applies to oaths they make TO themselves ABOUT themselves and never involves anyone else. Except for the "many" who walk out thinking all thier oaths, pledges, and personal vows aren't worth the air it took to say them. *cough* OK.
Why the hell don't protestants have something like that???? For a measly $400, you don't have to mean a thing you swear to all year. It's like a Get Out of Everything card.
Last edited on Mon Oct 5th, 2009 09:28 pm by Merlin
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met
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Posted: Mon Oct 5th, 2009 09:40 pm |
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emmylou wrote: Exactly. Religion is a bullshit veneer. The sad thing is some people are born into it, and some are foolish enough or desperate enough to buy into it. Religious leaders are the problem, not the (for the most part) good-hearted people who are in them.
I'm sure it sucks to be a Sikh woman as well. I'd hate to be a woman born into any religious cult. Christians don't feel that Sikhs are somehow "special", "chosen", or "closer" to God than they themselves are, however. They don't feel that God has a separate "covenant" with Sikhs. They do, however, feel this way about Jews. And Jews have some crazy-ass beliefs and practices. And most people don't even know about them.
So if you ever get a crazy idea in your head that Jews are somehow "special" to God, please realize that they are just like all the other cults out there; the only difference is in the details.
Interestingly, Sikhs are very non-cultlike ... well, when it comes to religion. Religiously, they are very pluralistic and tolerant, and the four doors in their temples relate to their affirmation that there are "many paths to God." In fact, it goes further than that ... in fact, i bet you'd find many of Nanak's teachings peaceful and enlightening, as you do Christ's .... but then people got involved, and eventually brought male dominance, the caste system, and many other proscribed things back into the middle of Sikh culture ... just like American-style xianity somehow manages to reconcile "an NT-based approach" with rampant materialism? .. and nobody even blinks anymore?
.... so maybe if u wanna be like that, you don't REALLY need a religious authority to back u up? . . . maybe it's not religions that are so bad but how people exploit them?
. . kinda like this, "all u need is a bad heart"
Last edited on Mon Oct 5th, 2009 09:50 pm by met
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-from Bobby
o Dir. Raj Kapoor. 1973. R.K. Films Ltd.
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met
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Posted: Mon Oct 5th, 2009 09:43 pm |
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Merlin wrote: My MOST favorite jewish custom is the practice of of going to Temple on Yom Kippur, to formally say the Kol Nidre:
"All personal vows we are likely to make, all personal oaths and pledges we are likely to take between this Yom Kippur and the next Yom Kippur, we publicly renounce. Let them all be relinquished and abandoned, null and void, neither firm nor established. Let our personal vows, pledges and oaths be considered neither vows nor pledges nor oaths."
Of course jews say it doesn't really mean what we THINK it does:
"Though the context makes it perfectly obvious that no vows or obligations towards others are implied, there have been many who were misled into believing that by means of this formula all their vows and oaths are annulled."
Uhhhh.... could that be because they publically say they are going to anull them???? Right, it only applies to oaths they make TO themselves ABOUT themselves and never involves anyone else. Except for the "many" who walk out thinking all thier oaths, pledges, and personal vows aren't worth the air it took to say them. *cough* OK.
Why the hell don't protestants have something like that???? For a measly $400, you don't have to mean a thing you swear to all year. It's like a Get Out of Everything card.
well, unfortunately, Christ is really down on pratices like that in the Synoptics ... (ok, ok, admittedly, it's not like NT warnings or prohibitions usually stop us anyway, we just usually use those to point at other people.. but in THIS case .. . )
Last edited on Mon Oct 5th, 2009 09:50 pm by met
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“Hum tum ek kamre meins band ho, aur chaabi kho jaaye”
-from Bobby
o Dir. Raj Kapoor. 1973. R.K. Films Ltd.
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emmylou
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Posted: Mon Oct 5th, 2009 09:50 pm |
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Very handy, and oh so spiritual.
Why do Christians believe the same god who allows this chicanery from Jews is also THEIR god, but deny that the god Muslims worship is their god?
Or do you think it's just because they have no idea what Judaism is all about?
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emmylou
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Posted: Mon Oct 5th, 2009 10:17 pm |
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| Met, there are many ways to take advantage of people, but there is something especially repulsive about taking advantage of people through their spirituality. "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you" "Love thy neighbor as thyself" "Do no harm"... that's enough religious instruction for anyone.
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emmylou
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Posted: Mon Oct 5th, 2009 11:28 pm |
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Merlin, another oldie but goodie: bedikahs.
I found these useful post-menstrual instructions on a Jewish website. In case you're wondering where to get the "checking cloths", they're sold at your local mikvah. You can also purchase envelopes to put them in when you turn the cloths over to your rabbi.
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Once she has stopped seeing blood, she can begin the count of the Seven White Days. When I say "stopped seeing blood," I mean either a flow of blood or stains on her clothing. It means that she has completely stopped seeing blood.
The Seven White Days begin when the woman, before sunset, takes a shower or bath, and cleans herself thoroughly, everywhere, or at the very least in that area. She then waits a few minutes, and inserts a cloth (as explained a few paragraphs below) and checks herself. If it comes out clean, then the next day is the first day of the Seven White Days.
The Seven White Days are not simply days of waiting. The woman must check herself twice a day, once when she gets up in the morning, and once just before sunset.
The checking is done with a white, absolutely clean piece of cloth (about three or four inches square). Specially made cloths for this purpose are sold in various places. You can usually buy them at your local mikvah.
First, the woman checks the cloth very carefully to make sure it is clean of any marks.
When satisfied that it is absolutely white and clean, she places her finger in the center of the cloth, and allows the cloth to wrap around her fingers. When she inserts her finger, she pushes the cloth in so that every surface inside her is touched by the cloth.
She removes the cloth, and checks it again, very carefully. If it comes out free of any mark, no problem. She can begin the Seven White Days.
If the cloth has a mark, no matter how small, then it depends on the color.
A red color mark is obviously no good, and means she has to begin the count again. It means she is still seeing some discharge of blood.
A black mark means she must begin again, because blood can become black.
White or pale yellow are not a problem, and she can continue the Seven White Days.
Sometimes other enzymes and secretions can mix with the discharge, so colors may come out strange.
Colors like brown, dark yellow, gold, and pink, are very problematic. What we do is we bring them to a competent local Orthodox Rabbi who looks at the cloth and is able to determine whether it is Niddah blood or not.
One of the more intense series of lessons that many Rabbis undertake in their training is the study of Niddah checking cloths. A Rabbi who studies this field is trained to recognize the many possible colors that can appear on a checking cloth, and to know what they are. Therefore, Rabbis are very experienced in these matters, and you should not hesitate to bring a cloth with a questionable color to the Rabbi.
During the Seven White Days the woman should wear white underclothes, and use white linen on her bed. If she sees on them a stain of a questionable color, at any point during the Seven White Days, she must ask a Rabbi, because each case is different. She might even have to start the count of Seven White Days from the beginning.
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Merlin
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Posted: Tue Oct 6th, 2009 02:01 am |
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Chassidic women must go insane at menopause, because periods start and stop whenever they feel like it. They must be unclean for like 3 straight years. And how cool is it that after menopause they can have every kind of STD possible but as long as they don't menstruate, they're clean!
Gah.
WTF would any modern person belong to a religion that demands blood sacrifice? It's beyond me.
Are there good and decent jews? Yeah. Is judaism a violent and bloody religion? Yeah.
Last edited on Tue Oct 6th, 2009 06:08 am by Merlin
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