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Torquemada
Yoda
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Posted: Wed Sep 30th, 2009 03:12 pm |
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Alright, don't laugh, this is a serious post (for me, at least). I need to know what the Bible says about the relationship between living in chronic, willful sin and prayer. I've gotten to a point where I'm really disgusted with myself. I'll just be upfront - I'm hooked on porn and addicted to wanking. I know it's sin and every so often I go back to God and repent, but I just go right back to it. I can't believe how filthy I am. I literally go from praying to God to forgiveness to carrying on in this sin within the span of five minutes. It's gotten to a point where I just have to be honest with God; I don't even attempt to suggest that I'll stop. I just say 'God, you know I'm going to go right back to it as soon as I'm done here, so why bother having this conversation?' After everything God has shown me in these last few months, I just can't believe what a disgusting filth I am in rensponse. I honestly don't care about God; I just want immediate pleasure. I've literally told God to shove off so I can continue sinning.
So my question is this, I guess - there's someone in my life that I really feel a burden to pray for. I want to pray effectively for her, but with this willful, intentionally chosen sin hanging around my neck, I really don't know if God hears my prayers. There's no rule that says 'God has to continue listening to you even when you tell him to feck off by your actions.' I have no right to sit there pontificating and pretending to be godly, and then going back to sin as soon as I'm done. I just feel like I'm letting not only God down, but this person I want to pray for as well. This is such an ongoing issue in my life that I have really enterained the thought of having myself medically castrated just so I can be done with; I don't want kids anyway. (Don't worry, I would never actually go for that - I like the ladies too much - but it has crossed my mind a few times).
So, I don't know. What should I do? Do I just keep praying like a hypocrite and pretend that God doesn't see what I do when I'm done? Do I ride this roller coaster for the rest of my life - repenting, saying 'screw it, I want my fun,' then repenting again and so forth? Is God really impressed with shit like that?
I know this post is going to be a target for crude jokes, and that's ok (I try not to take myself too seriously, anyway), but please understand that this is a real issue for me. This is actually the first time I've talked about it anywhere; my family and friends have no idea. I couldn't hate myself more if I tried right now. I just don't understand why I'm like this; God gives me every chance in the world, and all I do is hurt people, feck myself up, and make a mess of things. I really am disgusting, and I'm not saying that in a 'give me attention' emoey way; it's just an objective observation of a fact.
Last edited on Wed Sep 30th, 2009 03:15 pm by Torquemada
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Ronson
Ronson
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Posted: Wed Sep 30th, 2009 05:08 pm |
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Torquemada wrote: Alright, don't laugh, this is a serious post (for me, at least). I need to know what the Bible says about the relationship between living in chronic, willful sin and prayer. I've gotten to a point where I'm really disgusted with myself. I'll just be upfront - I'm hooked on porn and addicted to wanking. I know it's sin and every so often I go back to God and repent, but I just go right back to it.
I've posted this here before:
Leviticus15: 16-18
"When a man has an emission of semen, he must bathe his whole body with water, and he will be unclean till evening. Any clothing or leather that has semen on it must be washed with water, and it will be unclean till evening. When a man lies with a woman and there is an emission of semen, both must bathe with water, and they will be unclean till evening." (emphasis mine)
In the first sentence the man is alone, in the third sentence he's with a woman. Of course, this says nothing about pornography.
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Carol2
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Posted: Wed Sep 30th, 2009 05:59 pm |
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Your hormones are going wacky. You need another hobby. No one would be surprised to hear you're whacking off all the time (though people don't usually share that with the world), but maybe if you show some restraint when it comes to porn you wouldn't feel so dirty all the time.
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yoki
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Posted: Wed Sep 30th, 2009 06:39 pm |
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Yoda, God made you right? Without those impulses and desires you have, mankind would never have been able to fulfill the divine commission to mulitply and fill the earth. So God made you and gave you those hormones. Be thankful for them, as they are God given.
In 40 years from now you might even be bemoaning the fact that your desires have waned too much and your hormone supply is inadequate nowadays.
And Ronson's quotes are rather interesting, to say the least. Read them a few times over and try and view God as something other than that separated being sitting up there in the clouds with his hammer ever poised to slam down on folks. Until you get rid of that image, you will never be able to know who he really is.
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Merlin
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Posted: Wed Sep 30th, 2009 06:55 pm |
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Eh, you and every other young Turk your age is addicted to wanking. You're at the age that your biological mission is to fling sperm across the planet and impregnate as many females as possible. Of course you wank.
Biblical rules against wanking are based on the premise that every sperm you waste could have been another good little fundy or catholic. But you don't need anybody to tell you that you're too young to get married and take your place on the treadmill and it's not kosher to fornicate because rubbers break and girls lie about taking birth control pills and then you ruin a minimum of 3 lives. You might THINK you're mature and can fuck around and you're taking precautions, but things don't always work out the way you think they will.
You better remember that a girl's heart is directly attached to her pudenda. Men can and do find 'em, feel 'em, fuck 'em and forget 'em-- but a female will fall in love with you before your dick dries off. Sorry (not really) to be blunt, but it's unfortunately true. So don't go that route, grasshopper.
Oh-- and if you do fuck around and marry the girl, she will hate you the rest of her life for taking her young adulthood away from her. Many young women feel pressured to have sex with their boyfriends and later in life it hits them what they gave up to screw you in the back seat of your daddy's car.
Here's something you haven't thought of about wanking: the more porn you look at, the more you will expect your eventual bride to be a sexually skilled superwhore... and you're just not going to get that in a young girl. It takes lots of years and experiences to learn how to do all the stuff you see in the vids. Christian men still have the desire for the virgin whore bride, and they don't exist.
You're creating unreasonable expectations for what your gf or wife should be able to do sexually, Yoda. It just isn't like that in real life. You're setting your relationships up for failure by checking out so much porn.
Another thing, the more outrageous porn you watch, the more and more outrageous porn you will gravitate to. Straight hetero fucking with a couple of girl/girl scenes won't hold you for long, grasshopper.... soon you'll be looking at dog fucking and barnyard frolics and Chanta's bitches and Russian gang rape vids. It's real easy to get jaded on that stuff and want more and more intense stimulation. So be careful.
So, what's my advice? There are more reasons than Biblical to try and restrict your pud-pulling and I think you should cut back for more reasons than the fundy guilt you're having.
Do I think god will punish you for doing what you're biologically programmed to do? Heh, you should already know what I think of fairy tales. Do I think one night your wife is going to get tired of hanging from the ceiling, sucking your dick for 5 hours and will bust you in the head with something and then not fuck you for a month ? Yeah, that's a certainty. And so is the smooth operator that she tells her troubles to who agrees that you're a pervert, who will be the one laying on your side of the bed after the divorce.
I'd suggest you better try and find a sport, Yods. You know the psychological principal of sexual sublimation... you invest the energy somewhere else. It's up to you to find something to keep yourself busy and physically spent so that every minute alone isn't spent wanking and fantasising.
It's not as big of a deal as you think, but it is a big deal in ways you didn't think about.
Do the best you can. Eventually you'll grow up and it won't be such a big thrill any more. Until then, don't cause yourself trouble that can be so easily avoided. You don't want to be paying for the "sin" of wanking for the rest of your life.
M.
Last edited on Thu Oct 1st, 2009 03:31 am by Merlin
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Ronson
Ronson
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Posted: Wed Sep 30th, 2009 07:34 pm |
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yoki wrote: And Ronson's quotes are rather interesting, to say the least. Read them a few times over and try and view God as something other than that separated being sitting up there in the clouds with his hammer ever poised to slam down on folks. Until you get rid of that image, you will never be able to know who he really is.
Yoda has in the past claimed to be affiliated with either RC or Orthodox theology. If this still applies and he is looking for scriptural references (which I supplied) then the verse is relevant.
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Merlin
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Posted: Wed Sep 30th, 2009 07:42 pm |
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Yoda was yanking your chain with the catholic references.
Also, your referenced verse refers to nocturnal emissions, not masturbation.
Last edited on Wed Sep 30th, 2009 07:43 pm by Merlin
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Ronson
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Posted: Wed Sep 30th, 2009 07:48 pm |
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Merlin wrote: Also, your referenced verse refers to nocturnal emissions, not masturbation.
How do you know this?
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Merlin
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Posted: Wed Sep 30th, 2009 07:56 pm |
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Oh, I dunno... probably those 4 years of Bible college and hearing this talked about a zillion times or so, maybe all those years I've spent studying human sexuality and the bible...
Jews very carefully differentiatie between masturbation and accidental "emission" of semen and their knowledge of sexuality today is about as idiotic as it was when they wrote the scripture in question.
But here, get it from the horse's mouth:
http://www.jewishsexuality.com/nocturnal-emissions
If you don't like jewspeak, then go here:
http://www.gotquestions.org/wet-dreams.html
Actually, I'll remove the 3rd reference because it could provide too many distractions from the question of what a "seminal emission" means in the bible.
Last edited on Wed Sep 30th, 2009 08:05 pm by Merlin
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Ronson
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Posted: Wed Sep 30th, 2009 08:10 pm |
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Merlin wrote: Oh, I dunno... probably those 4 years of Bible college and hearing this talked about a zillion times or so, maybe all those years I've spent studying human sexuality and the bible...
Jews very carefully differentiatie between masturbation and accidental "emission" of semen and their knowledge of sexuality today is about as idiotic as it was when they wrote the scripture in question.
"When a man has an emission of semen, he must bathe his whole body with water, and he will be unclean till evening. Any clothing or leather that has semen on it must be washed with water, and it will be unclean till evening."
If this refers to nocturnal emissions then it is worded very poorly. The second sentence should say "Bedding with semen on it must be ..." It shouldn't begin with "Any clothing or leather..." This makes it sound like it's possible to have an emission and nothing is touched by it. How does this work when you are laying down asleep?
The way it is worded suggests there may be emissions without any contact with clothing. For people with a bedouin lifestyle this should be easy enough to do when masturbating.
Furthermore, I have never in my life had a "wet dream." In my younger years when this subject came up, only one person among my peers said this happened to him - and that was only once. By comparison, all of these people (myself included) admitted to masturbating quite frequently when single. The frequency is probably thousands upon thousands of times over a lifetime. Why dedicate a biblical verse to something that is relatively rare when compared to something common that isn't mentioned at all? It doesn't make sense.
http://www.jewishsexuality.com/nocturnal-emissions
If you don't like jewspeak, then go here:
http://www.gotquestions.org/wet-dreams.html
These interpretations also miss what I have objected to.
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Merlin
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Posted: Wed Sep 30th, 2009 08:45 pm |
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1. it is worded very poorly Yeah, imagine the bible being worded poorly. Go figure.
2. The second sentence should say "Bedding with semen on it must be ..." It shouldn't begin with "Any clothing or leather..." This makes it sound like it's possible to have an emission and nothing is touched by it. How does this work when you are laying down asleep? What, exactly, do you think they slept on? Bare sand?
ronson, there are -- how shall one say-- differences in the angle of the penis and the force with which semen is ejaculated. It is entirely possible to have an "emission" and instead of semen dribbling down the thigh or landing on the guy's belly, it ends up on the wall in back of him, about 6 feet over his head.
If a man comes on his stomach or thigh in a wet dream, he isn't going to do much different when he's wanking. The only way a guy can wank and shoot straight out is if he's standing up, and you know that's just too much like work for the average guy.
Furthermore, I have never in my life had a "wet dream." OK. In my younger years when this subject came up, only one person among my peers said this happened to him - and that was only once. Do you REALLY think young guys are going to admit to something like that, especially when they think it's something abnormal ? btw, I'm not buying your claim that all you guys NEVER had a wet dream. By comparison, all of these people (myself included) admitted to masturbating quite frequently when single. Because it made you look manly and was something you understood. The frequency is probably thousands upon thousands of times over a lifetime. Why dedicate a biblical verse to something that is relatively rare when compared to something common that isn't mentioned at all? Why say a woman is unclean because she has a period? Why say she's unclean after having a baby (but unclean more days if it was a daughter?) Why say that any man who pisses on a wall must be cut off from Israel? Why say a man can't cut his beard? Why say it is a sin to wear blended fabrics? It doesn't make sense. Nothing in the jewish cultural law makes sense to anybody today. I'm sure it made perfect sense to bronze-age savages.
These interpretations also miss what I have objected to. And what would that be, pray tell?
Last edited on Wed Sep 30th, 2009 08:47 pm by Merlin
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Be like a dog: if you can't eat it or hump it, piss on it and walk away.
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yoki
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Posted: Wed Sep 30th, 2009 08:47 pm |
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Merlin wrote: Oh, I dunno... probably those 4 years of Bible college and hearing this talked about a zillion times or so, maybe all those years I've spent studying human sexuality and the bible...
Jews very carefully differentiatie between masturbation and accidental "emission" of semen and their knowledge of sexuality today is about as idiotic as it was when they wrote the scripture in question.
But here, get it from the horse's mouth:
http://www.jewishsexuality.com/nocturnal-emissions
If you don't like jewspeak, then go here:
http://www.gotquestions.org/wet-dreams.html
Actually, I'll remove the 3rd reference because it could provide too many distractions from the question of what a "seminal emission" means in the bible.
LOL! Then is must be also true that Jesus made non-alcoholic wine at the wedding in Cana. wine = grape juice, and, nocturnal emission = wet dream
The logic is.... well...it is inescapable.
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Merlin
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Posted: Wed Sep 30th, 2009 08:49 pm |
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| Yoki-- you see what I mean about "Kabbalistic bullshit?" It's even more absurd than christian superstition.
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yoki
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Posted: Wed Sep 30th, 2009 08:55 pm |
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Merlin wrote: Yoki-- you see what I mean about "Kabbalistic bullshit?" It's even more absurd than christian superstition.
Well, when it comes to absurdity, there was one eastern cult I came across wherein it was taught that people should never sleep in the nude, because this attracts demons. So Christian evangelicalism seems pretty tame when compared to many of the others.
But ya gotta love the evangelical myths, e.g., Jesus mentioned Hell more than he did Heaven in the gospels, and "scientists say...." that the Earth is one day behind - thus, verifying the truth of the book of Joshua.
Last edited on Wed Sep 30th, 2009 08:56 pm by yoki
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Merlin
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Posted: Wed Sep 30th, 2009 09:04 pm |
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I personally like Tantric yoga... it teaches that a man's entire life force is in his ejaculate and when he uses all of it up, he dies. So rather than let the evil woomyn get his life force, the practitioner learns reverse peristalsis and uses the muscles in the penis to vacuum up all the come so that it doesn't count against his total number of useages.
Obviously not too many Hindus practice Tantric yoga.
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Evelyn
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Posted: Wed Sep 30th, 2009 09:10 pm |
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I would ask, who is this horrible sin harming? There are so many hurtful, harmful, damaging things that human beings do, from eating meat (which I do), to polluting the environment, to gossiping, to being rude. Compared to any or all of that, relieving sexual tension seems positively angelic!
The porn part is much more problematic, imo. Some real girls agreed to do things that degraded and humiliated them (and may have caused physical harm), so that strangers could get off without having to use their own damn imagination. So I would say, worry that someone will find all that crap on your computer, or whatever it takes to scare you straight, and pull the plug on the porn. (If it were manga or drawings or something else that didn't involve real people, I'd have no concern. I think there is a big market for porn comic books, personally. No harm, no foul.)
But nature itself teaches that young men need to express their sexuality as much as 2 or 3 times a day, and no young woman is going to be in the mood for all that sex. I think solo sex is about as harmful as solo eating--not as good as a nice meal with friends, but a heck of a lot better than starvation. It's like listening to music on an ipod rather than going to a concert. It's like reading the script rather than seeing the movie.
Lose the guilt (and the porn), and my guess would be that the mania would probably die down too. And once a day would be enough. Which is normal for a young guy. Why waste the best (sexual) years of your life "burning" with unfulfilled desire? Get it out of the way, and your mind will be free to read or study or, oh I don't know, talk to real girls without going all crazy.
Most of the world's religions are all bent out of shape over masturbation because they actually believed that a.) it's our responsibility to make as many babies as possible (because it was!) and b.) every seed spilled is a wasted *baby.* They thought the whole baby came from the seed and the womb was just the soil. To them, masturbation was literally abortion. So their warnings are based on bad biology and out-dated social concerns. You wouldn't look to the Bible to teach you nuclear physics, so don't expect it to teach you human biology either. It's out of date, period. Ignore it and use your own God-given sense to form sexual morals that actually make sense. (For example, it is not ok to capture a woman in war and keep her as a wife, no matter what the Bible says, and you know it.) Set yourself free, and make good choices!
Last edited on Thu Oct 1st, 2009 09:47 pm by Evelyn
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Carol2
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Posted: Wed Sep 30th, 2009 09:17 pm |
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Basically, what everyone is saying is that it's normal to jack off, but lose the porn.
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Merlin
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Posted: Wed Sep 30th, 2009 09:20 pm |
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Well, I don't think all porn degrades or humiliates women (or men, for that matter) because lots of porn actors enjoy what they do tremendously and gettng paid ofr it is just a bonus. Hell, they'd do it free if they didn't get paid. Some, of course, do it because they need the money and it does degrade them.
However, just plain ol' porn leads to not-so-plain-ol'-porn. Porn afficionadoes generally become bored sooner or later and broaden their horizons into areas that aren't quite so innocent and a thing seen cannot be unseen and can lead young grasshoppers down strange and dangerous roads.
Anyway, Yoda's head is full of fundy nonsense and he's going to continue to view wanking as a sin, so my approach is to get him to dissipate some of the energy through athletics or a social cause, leaving him less time with the baby oil.
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yoki
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Posted: Wed Sep 30th, 2009 09:26 pm |
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Merlin wrote: I personally like Tantric yoga... it teaches that a man's entire life force is in his ejaculate and when he uses all of it up, he dies. So rather than let the evil woomyn get his life force, the practitioner learns reverse peristalsis and uses the muscles in the penis to vacuum up all the come so that it doesn't count against his total number of useages.
Obviously not too many Hindus practice Tantric yoga.
Ahhh, so that explains what Muktanada was doing. I wasn't aware of that that teaching or practice before. Thanks.
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yoki
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Posted: Wed Sep 30th, 2009 09:33 pm |
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Carol2 wrote: Basically, what everyone is saying is that it's normal to jack off, but lose the porn.
As long as the porn is legal, I wouldn't even suggest to lose it. Magazines like Playboy are legal. But there are a variety of illegal forms of porn, and if those are being used, then they should be lost and eraditcated.
Eros is a god to respect, but not violated.
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