 |
| Author | Post |
|---|
AyHyperbole
Dialogue Follower
| Joined: | Mon Nov 10th, 2008 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 2398 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
| Mana: |    |
|
Posted: Wed Sep 30th, 2009 09:51 pm |
|
yoki wrote: Carol2 wrote: Basically, what everyone is saying is that it's normal to jack off, but lose the porn.
As long as the porn is legal, I wouldn't even suggest to lose it.
Me neither.
I think Evelyn is speaking from a time before the great Internet explosion of 1995. It's my impression that, back in the '70s and '80s, to be a woman working in the porn industry was probably fairly degrading.
Nowadays, things are different. The industry is like 20 times bigger than it was 15 years ago - the point where most strippers have done crossover work in porn, and, frankly, it's just not stigmitized the same way. It's an utterly enormous industry. I think most guys under 30 actually know someone who's had connections to the industry.
And there are niches that, frankly, seem not only "not degrading" but, at times, downright empowering. Like the Suicidegirls model - it's a female-run site, and the model arranges for her own photographer and scenario and submits it, and then she runs a blog parallel to her photosets and has the ability to kick guys off if they get out of line.
I may get some disagreement here, but I don't think there's anything inherently degrading about selling sex, or images of sex, for money. What's degrading is the way those trades have historically been handled - sleazy pimps and pornographers with all the physical abuse and quid-pro-quo. It's changing.
With respect to Yoda's original post... I think the concept of a God who's watching you masturbate and clucking his teeth in disapproval is just fucking asinine. God has better things to do. If your "habit" is making you fall short in other goals in your life, you have a problem. If it isn't, you don't.
|
met
Dialogue Facilitator
| Joined: | Mon Aug 20th, 2007 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 1500 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
| Mana: | |
|
Posted: Wed Sep 30th, 2009 10:22 pm |
|
Merlin wrote: I personally like Tantric yoga... it teaches that a man's entire life force is in his ejaculate and when he uses all of it up, he dies. So rather than let the evil woomyn get his life force, the practitioner learns reverse peristalsis and uses the muscles in the penis to vacuum up all the come so that it doesn't count against his total number of useages.
Obviously not too many Hindus practice Tantric yoga.
kundalini yoga ... keep it to bliss yourself out up your OWN susumna .. not hers 
but, still, what u said's a bit oversimplified Merl, as many Kindalini-type sects are heavily into actual celibacy...
well, ok, in theory at least
____________________
“Hum tum ek kamre meins band ho, aur chaabi kho jaaye”
-from Bobby
o Dir. Raj Kapoor. 1973. R.K. Films Ltd.
|
Torquemada
Yoda
| Joined: | Mon Aug 13th, 2007 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 1433 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
| Mana: | |
|
Posted: Wed Sep 30th, 2009 11:50 pm |
|
Hmm. Good thoughts, everyone, thanks.
Just to clarify a few points....
1) "Addicted" was probably too strong of a word. It's not like I'm sitting in front of my computer wanking all day. I have a normal job and a normal social life; 'wanking' is just a way to relieve stress.
but
2) "Addicted" may not have been too strong of a word, either. What concerns me isn't the act itself, so much as the psychology involved in it. It's really not even sexual for me; it's more of a tension release for deeper issues. It's just a way not to think about 'deeper' concerns - the way some people use drugs or alcohol. I've never done either of those things, so in a way it keeps me from potentially more harmful behaviors. Music is my other 'drug.' I've thought about listening to music when I'm tempted as an emotional release, but haven't really tried it yet.
3) I'm not Roman Catholic or Eastern Orthodox; that was a joke.
4) Merlin is correct. I'm into some fairly twisted things, although probably nothing like what she has in mind. I do like some forms of S&M, though, and my thoughts and fantasies are anything but pure.
5) My main concern here isn't so much whether wanking in itself is a sin, but how this is affecting my prayer life. Even if the act isn't a sin, I know that my attitudes and the kinds of fantasies I'm drawn to are certainly ungodly. There's someone in my life that I need to be praying for, and if this is driving me away from God (which it is) and leaving me unable to pray for her effective, then I'd sooner just stop it, if possible. That's the real concern here - am I letting my friend down by engaging in behaviors that are rendering me unable to properly pray for her?
6) I'm not trying to be gross. I'd like to talk about this on a spiritual level.
Last edited on Wed Sep 30th, 2009 11:53 pm by Torquemada
____________________
Let's Take a Vote.
|
met
Dialogue Facilitator
| Joined: | Mon Aug 20th, 2007 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 1500 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
| Mana: | |
|
Posted: Thu Oct 1st, 2009 12:58 am |
|
Torquemada wrote:
5) My main concern here isn't so much whether wanking in itself is a sin, but how this is affecting my prayer life. Even if the act isn't a sin, I know that my attitudes and the kinds of fantasies I'm drawn to are certainly ungodly. There's someone in my life that I need to be praying for, and if this is driving me away from God (which it is) and leaving me unable to pray for her effective, then I'd sooner just stop it, if possible. That's the real concern here - am I letting my friend down by engaging in behaviors that are rendering me unable to properly pray for her?
what an unfair God that'd be... " No, no, no I'll just let her suffer. . . just cuz Yoda wanks at his computer!!"
with due respect, yodes, if that's your vision of God, is he really worth praying to? ... so maybe that's your real, deeper problem? 
eta: but, personally, i think God knows where your heart's REALLY at (wherever that may be, since i obviously don't realy have a clue...) when you're praying for your friend
Last edited on Thu Oct 1st, 2009 01:06 am by met
____________________
“Hum tum ek kamre meins band ho, aur chaabi kho jaaye”
-from Bobby
o Dir. Raj Kapoor. 1973. R.K. Films Ltd.
|
Torquemada
Yoda
| Joined: | Mon Aug 13th, 2007 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 1433 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
| Mana: | |
|
Posted: Thu Oct 1st, 2009 01:02 am |
|
met wrote: what an unfair God that'd be... " No, no, no I'll just let her suffer. . . cuz Yoda wanks at his computer!!"
with due respect, yodes, if that's your vision of God, is he really worth praying to? ... so maybe that's your real, deeper problem? YO: Well, yeah. My concept of God is inconsistent, but so is the Bible's concept of God. I really don't know if I trust God or not.
____________________
Let's Take a Vote.
|
met
Dialogue Facilitator
| Joined: | Mon Aug 20th, 2007 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 1500 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
| Mana: | |
|
Posted: Thu Oct 1st, 2009 01:05 am |
|
see my late add to that ... and, btw, sorry if i sound like Pearls or someone sappy there 
____________________
“Hum tum ek kamre meins band ho, aur chaabi kho jaaye”
-from Bobby
o Dir. Raj Kapoor. 1973. R.K. Films Ltd.
|
Merlin
Dialogue Facilitator
| Joined: | Tue Aug 21st, 2007 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 6387 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
| Mana: | |
|
Posted: Thu Oct 1st, 2009 03:06 am |
|
Tantric sex isn't kundalini sex. Kundalini is wakening the serpent chakra and having all kinds of sexual abilities. Tantric sex is esoteric way beyond kundalini anything and is more of a philosophy of male/female than it's about energizing the chakras.
Men who energize their serpent chakras don't generally vacuum up their semen out of a vagina so that the evil woomin can't have his life essence.
True that there are Tantric masters who are celibate-- but it's because they don't want to shoot their last load and come and go at the same time.
____________________
Be like a dog: if you can't eat it or hump it, piss on it and walk away.
|
Merlin
Dialogue Facilitator
| Joined: | Tue Aug 21st, 2007 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 6387 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
| Mana: | |
|
Posted: Thu Oct 1st, 2009 03:08 am |
|
And where the hell is YODA, since he started this thread and disappeared? Wanking, I'm sure.
Excuse me, grasshopper, but could you give it a rest long enough to participate a little bit here?
Last edited on Thu Oct 1st, 2009 03:08 am by Merlin
____________________
Be like a dog: if you can't eat it or hump it, piss on it and walk away.
|
Torquemada
Yoda
| Joined: | Mon Aug 13th, 2007 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 1433 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
| Mana: | |
|
Posted: Thu Oct 1st, 2009 01:37 pm |
|
Merlin wrote: And where the hell is YODA, since he started this thread and disappeared? Wanking, I'm sure.
Excuse me, grasshopper, but could you give it a rest long enough to participate a little bit here?
Er. Sure. Let me just put the Playboy down.... 
I've been reading the thread, actually, and digesting the comments.
____________________
Let's Take a Vote.
|
Merlin
Dialogue Facilitator
| Joined: | Tue Aug 21st, 2007 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 6387 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
| Mana: | |
|
Posted: Thu Oct 1st, 2009 06:57 pm |
|
The only thing I'm thinking is that your head is full of fundy teachings and you'll feel guilt over this no matter what anybody says.
And that your porn interests today can become increasingly bizarre.
I don't think you're "addicted" and probably don't wank half as much as some guys.
Just be aware that unless you date some jaded porn star (fat chance) that women aren't going to be able to do things the way they're done in videos. You may be setting yourself up for disappointment in any sexual relationship you enter into. If you're going to watch porn, you better realize that.
S&M isn't the evil thing people think it is and can be beneficial in many ways. It can also be very dangerous and psychologically harmful in many ways. What is it in bdsm that you find interesting? It doesn't surprise me that you're attracted to it.
..... many people masturbate as a form of tension release. Many people have sex as a form of tension release. That isn't some kind of weird concept.
As far as your wanking being a block to your prayers, the bible is actually silent on masturbation. The only thing it says is that if you get semen on your clothing that you're unclean till the evening. Of course, everything was unclean to them.
You masturbating has about as much spiritual significance as a woman having a period.
The spiritual violation is that you have lusty thoughts while you whack. OK, but men have lustful thoughts every time they see some gir'ls tits or ass, clothed or unclothed. That's just the way men work sexually: men are aroused by sight and women are aroused by touch-- although there are many degrees inbetween for both. I don't think there's any way not to lust.
BUT there's a difference in getting a boner from seeing a girl walk by and sitting there and having a whole sex scene with her in your head.
But I don't know how you can stop yourself from doing that becuase of the simple rule that whatever you spend so much time tryng not to do and thinking about not doing, is exactly what you'll do because it's such a big deal to you.
Does god refuse to hear your prayers because you lust? If that's true, then he doesn't hear the prayers of 95% of christians. I think that's an idiotic concept, but you're going to believe as you believe.
You have to do what you believe is the best course of action..... which, of course, will be to try and stop whacking, fail, feel guily --which causes even more tension-- whack some more, feel guilty--- repent, whack, feel guilty, repent, whack, feel guilty.... that's life for a fundy, Yoda. You'll be on that merry-go-round for the rest of your life. So either you get off the ride or you go around and around and around a million times till maybe you get so dizzy you fall off or even worse, you get pissed and jump off. If you fall or jump, who knows where you'll land. Makes more sense to me to just stop the ride and get off, but you'll do as you'll do.
Good luck.
____________________
Be like a dog: if you can't eat it or hump it, piss on it and walk away.
|
met
Dialogue Facilitator
| Joined: | Mon Aug 20th, 2007 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 1500 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
| Mana: | |
|
Posted: Thu Oct 1st, 2009 08:10 pm |
|
Merlin wrote: try and stop whacking, fail, feel guily --which causes even more tension-- whack some more, feel guilty--- repent, whack, feel guilty, repent, whack, feel guilty.... that's life for a fundy, Yoda.
....
Good luck.
. . . . extremely succinctly stated, Merl  .. i laughed, i cried .. . it relieved some of my tension Last edited on Thu Oct 1st, 2009 08:12 pm by met
____________________
“Hum tum ek kamre meins band ho, aur chaabi kho jaaye”
-from Bobby
o Dir. Raj Kapoor. 1973. R.K. Films Ltd.
|
PearlsSand2
Dialogue Facilitator
| Joined: | Wed Jun 25th, 2008 |
| Location: | USA |
| Posts: | 1250 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
| Mana: | |
|
Posted: Sat Oct 3rd, 2009 02:42 am |
|
How bout this, Yoda?
Father, I am not coming to you in my own righteousness. I am also not coming to you in my failures/sins/perceived failures. I am just coming to you because right now, in this moment, I need to. My heart and my spirit and my mind just needs to.
I want to speak with you about a person I care deeply for and a situation, and I am coming to you just to ask you...._____fill in the blank. (or whatever or however ever else you need to express it).
You need to jump off the guilt-wagon and grab hold of the fact that you can go to Him just as you are. He already knows, anyway. And most of all, He knows your heart and His plan for your life which is an ongoing process of experience, for you.
You don't grab hold of the throne of grace in His presence based on your good works or lack thereof, anyway. You really can go boldly to His throne in your time of need..whatever that need may be, for yourself or another.
Why? Because you are clothed in the righteousness of Christ Jesus.......in His sight. You are not naked.
____________________
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YkKue_MEnkk&feature=fvw
|
Merlin
Dialogue Facilitator
| Joined: | Tue Aug 21st, 2007 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 6387 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
| Mana: | |
|
Posted: Sat Oct 3rd, 2009 05:32 am |
|
You are not naked
*snert*
____________________
Be like a dog: if you can't eat it or hump it, piss on it and walk away.
|
met
Dialogue Facilitator
| Joined: | Mon Aug 20th, 2007 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 1500 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
| Mana: | |
|
Posted: Sun Oct 4th, 2009 03:52 am |
|
Merlin wrote: Tantric sex isn't kundalini sex. Kundalini is wakening the serpent chakra and having all kinds of sexual abilities. Tantric sex is esoteric way beyond kundalini anything and is more of a philosophy of male/female than it's about energizing the chakras.
Men who energize their serpent chakras don't generally vacuum up their semen out of a vagina so that the evil woomin can't have his life essence.
True that there are Tantric masters who are celibate-- but it's because they don't want to shoot their last load and come and go at the same time.
what's "kundalini sex" .. since kundalini is the energy shared in intercourse, isn't all sex "kundalini sex?"
. .. not all the yogic traditions believe in kundalini as a special, separate energy, aside from the usual prana life-energy ... some see the "kundalini" as a sort of block of the susumn nadir (spinal energy channel)instead ... and as i understand it, that view of it is more usual amoung those sects and gurus who assert sex and family life are a viable/desirable part of a yogi's lifestyle and don't espouse sexual celibacy for their followers ... and they are also the groups who tend(ed) toallow women to study yoga
... do i got all this wrong?? Last edited on Sun Oct 4th, 2009 03:55 am by met
____________________
“Hum tum ek kamre meins band ho, aur chaabi kho jaaye”
-from Bobby
o Dir. Raj Kapoor. 1973. R.K. Films Ltd.
|
Merlin
Dialogue Facilitator
| Joined: | Tue Aug 21st, 2007 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 6387 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
| Mana: | |
|
Posted: Sun Oct 4th, 2009 05:01 am |
|
since kundalini is the energy shared in intercourse, isn't all sex "kundalini sex?"
Well, I don't think we all have energy-snakes coiled at the base of the spine, so I'd have to say NO, I don't think all sex is kundalini sex.
But I'm not really talking about kundalini sex, but about Tantric Yoga.
____________________
Be like a dog: if you can't eat it or hump it, piss on it and walk away.
|
yoki
Dialogue Facilitator
|
Posted: Sun Oct 4th, 2009 10:20 pm |
|
met wrote: Merlin wrote: Tantric sex isn't kundalini sex. Kundalini is wakening the serpent chakra and having all kinds of sexual abilities. Tantric sex is esoteric way beyond kundalini anything and is more of a philosophy of male/female than it's about energizing the chakras.
Men who energize their serpent chakras don't generally vacuum up their semen out of a vagina so that the evil woomin can't have his life essence.
True that there are Tantric masters who are celibate-- but it's because they don't want to shoot their last load and come and go at the same time.
what's "kundalini sex" .. since kundalini is the energy shared in intercourse, isn't all sex "kundalini sex?"
. .. not all the yogic traditions believe in kundalini as a special, separate energy, aside from the usual prana life-energy ... some see the "kundalini" as a sort of block of the susumn nadir (spinal energy channel)instead ... and as i understand it, that view of it is more usual amoung those sects and gurus who assert sex and family life are a viable/desirable part of a yogi's lifestyle and don't espouse sexual celibacy for their followers ... and they are also the groups who tend(ed) toallow women to study yoga
... do i got all this wrong??
I don't believe you have it wrong met. Kundalini is something experience by all people who have an orgasm during sex. Imagine if one could experience such orgiastic bliss all the time - that is the goal of kundalini yoga in its various forms. I can attest to the reality of it from personal experience, but I can not objectively prove it.
____________________
____________________
When shit happens, God doesn't give one.
|
met
Dialogue Facilitator
| Joined: | Mon Aug 20th, 2007 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 1500 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
| Mana: | |
|
Posted: Mon Oct 5th, 2009 01:35 am |
|
Merlin wrote: since kundalini is the energy shared in intercourse, isn't all sex "kundalini sex?"
Well, I don't think we all have energy-snakes coiled at the base of the spine, so I'd have to say NO, I don't think all sex is kundalini sex.
But I'm not really talking about kundalini sex, but about Tantric Yoga.
Check this out:
In the Tantric formulation, the goal of practice is to increase and manipulate the flow of prana through the nadis so that its flow is first balanced and finally moved up through the central nadi of the shushumna. This is the process known vaguely to millions of westerners as "raising the Kundalini."
Stephen Cope, Yoga and the Quest for the True Self
This is how the Tantric tradition seems to believe spiritual insight/bliss can be achieved through asana practice and and other physical means. And the way it relates to "ejaculationless sex" and celibacy is that some people began to believe the seed, carrying kundalini, life-creating sexual energy, could be transmuted into spiritual energy and risen up to the crown of the head (in a male).... that is, IF it wasn't "wasted" otherwise with women. (But in women, they believed, the kundalini rises up during intercourse anyways, and so i've heard it said a woman need not practice neither asanas nor pranayama at all... that is, IF her sex-life is satisfactory... )
So it's ironic.... the Tantric (non-dualist) tradition leads to these "celibacy"-type cults and practices. .. and to the rejection of women practitioners on the mystic paths
This kundalini stuff is STILL pretty close to the core of yoga in some ways, tho.. In fact - according to T. K. V Desikachar - even the proper name for what Westerners usually think of as "yoga" - "Hatha Yoga" (which is usually translated "physical yoga") - actually refers to the the ha and the tha nadis. These are the OTHER two main energy channels, besides the shushumna, that run up the back; they're attached to each nostril and they crisscross each other at each of the six lower chakras. They're what have to be balanced before the kundalini can be raised... as in the Cope snip above. (I don't know about that. Funny tho, how virtually anyone who practices yoga very much soon realizes how inportant if is to learn to breath EVENLY across the nostirls, and into each side of the lungs, before they get very far... and even if nobody explains all this to them... )
However, neither the Kundalini nor anything else at all like that are mentioned at all in the Yoga "bible"... the Yoga Sutras by Patanjali (ce 200 BCE) Patanjali, like Paul, is a pretty strict dualist and, on his astanga path, asana and paranyama practices seem mostly a prelude to, a purification for, and a support of the main event, which is the pursuit of enlightenment/ paramana (clarity) through meditative techniques... pratyahara, dhyana, samjana. .. not as a means to that end in themselves. In fact, to me, most of Patanjali reads more like modern psychology than ancient Hindu mysticism
But then again - like u said - NOBODY with any clue really takes any of this so literally ... the whole language of Kundalini, Nadis, Prana and such is experiential, not metaphysical - it's a (more or less fanciful depending on whom you ask) way of describing the common experiences of people who've pursued this yogic-mystic stuff over the centuries....
Last edited on Mon Oct 5th, 2009 02:05 am by met
____________________
“Hum tum ek kamre meins band ho, aur chaabi kho jaaye”
-from Bobby
o Dir. Raj Kapoor. 1973. R.K. Films Ltd.
|
met
Dialogue Facilitator
| Joined: | Mon Aug 20th, 2007 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 1500 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
| Mana: | |
|
Posted: Mon Oct 5th, 2009 01:45 am |
|
yoki wrote: met wrote: Merlin wrote: Tantric sex isn't kundalini sex. Kundalini is wakening the serpent chakra and having all kinds of sexual abilities. Tantric sex is esoteric way beyond kundalini anything and is more of a philosophy of male/female than it's about energizing the chakras.
Men who energize their serpent chakras don't generally vacuum up their semen out of a vagina so that the evil woomin can't have his life essence.
True that there are Tantric masters who are celibate-- but it's because they don't want to shoot their last load and come and go at the same time.
what's "kundalini sex" .. since kundalini is the energy shared in intercourse, isn't all sex "kundalini sex?"
. .. not all the yogic traditions believe in kundalini as a special, separate energy, aside from the usual prana life-energy ... some see the "kundalini" as a sort of block of the susumn nadir (spinal energy channel)instead ... and as i understand it, that view of it is more usual amoung those sects and gurus who assert sex and family life are a viable/desirable part of a yogi's lifestyle and don't espouse sexual celibacy for their followers ... and they are also the groups who tend(ed) toallow women to study yoga
... do i got all this wrong??
I don't believe you have it wrong met. Kundalini is something experience by all people who have an orgasm during sex. Imagine if one could experience such orgiastic bliss all the time - that is the goal of kundalini yoga in its various forms. I can attest to the reality of it from personal experience, but I can not objectively prove it.
Yeh, yokes, come to think of it, u DO have something of that "holy fool" thang about urslef sometimes ... does someone have to tell u when you've eaten enough to survive??
Last edited on Mon Oct 5th, 2009 01:50 am by met
____________________
“Hum tum ek kamre meins band ho, aur chaabi kho jaaye”
-from Bobby
o Dir. Raj Kapoor. 1973. R.K. Films Ltd.
|
Merlin
Dialogue Facilitator
| Joined: | Tue Aug 21st, 2007 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 6387 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
| Mana: | |
|
Posted: Mon Oct 5th, 2009 02:04 am |
|
| The only problem with the "kundali" force that everybody makes use of during sex is that it doesn't exist any more than bible god or the flying spaghetti monster. Other than that minor little detail, you are both correct about it.
____________________
Be like a dog: if you can't eat it or hump it, piss on it and walk away.
|
met
Dialogue Facilitator
| Joined: | Mon Aug 20th, 2007 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 1500 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
| Mana: | |
|
Posted: Mon Oct 5th, 2009 02:10 am |
|
Merlin wrote: The only problem with the "kundali" force that everybody makes use of during sex is that it doesn't exist any more than bible god or the flying spaghetti monster. Other than that minor little detail, you are both correct about it.
Then why can yokes attest to the reality of it?? 
____________________
“Hum tum ek kamre meins band ho, aur chaabi kho jaaye”
-from Bobby
o Dir. Raj Kapoor. 1973. R.K. Films Ltd.
|
Current time is 05:11 pm | Page:   1 2 3   |
|
|
|
|
