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AyHyperbole
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Posted: Mon Jan 12th, 2009 11:20 pm |
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Hypothetical situation.
You're walking along, when a guy with a crazy look in his eye jumps out of the bushes and demands that you hand him the shirt on your back.
Despite the fact that the guy is trying to steal from you, he's really small and scrawny. Also, you happen to be armed.
What's your call, here?
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Pastor John
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Posted: Mon Jan 12th, 2009 11:38 pm |
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| I'd shoot him with my nine millimeter.
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stiggywiggy
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Posted: Mon Jan 12th, 2009 11:47 pm |
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AyHyperbole wrote: Hypothetical situation.
You're walking along, when a guy with a crazy look in his eye jumps out of the bushes and demands that you hand him the shirt on your back.
Despite the fact that the guy is trying to steal from you, he's really small and scrawny. Also, you happen to be armed.
What's your call, here?
Is it cold? Will my nipples freeze? Do I have an undershirt like Buttons to make do until I get home? Am I svelte? Am I in public? Is it my favorite Georgia Tech shirt?
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AyHyperbole
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Posted: Mon Jan 12th, 2009 11:50 pm |
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stiggywiggy wrote: AyHyperbole wrote: Hypothetical situation.
You're walking along, when a guy with a crazy look in his eye jumps out of the bushes and demands that you hand him the shirt on your back.
Despite the fact that the guy is trying to steal from you, he's really small and scrawny. Also, you happen to be armed.
What's your call, here?
Is it cold? Will my nipples freeze? Do I have an undershirt like Buttons to make do until I get home? Am I svelte? Am I in public? Is it my favorite Georgia Tech shirt?
Sort of, no, yes, probably not, no, and yes.
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Joe Don Baker
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Posted: Mon Jan 12th, 2009 11:55 pm |
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AyHyperbole wrote: Hypothetical situation.
You're walking along, when a guy with a crazy look in his eye jumps out of the bushes and demands that you hand him the shirt on your back.
Despite the fact that the guy is trying to steal from you, he's really small and scrawny. Also, you happen to be armed.
What's your call, here?
What if I'm not wearing a shirt?
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stiggywiggy
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Posted: Mon Jan 12th, 2009 11:56 pm |
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I got a better one for Christians of the male persuasion:
You're walking down the street. A hot little nubile number catches your eye. You glance her way. You appreciate. Suddenly your appreciation in infused with a slight desire. Then... BOOM.... your desire blossoms into full-blown lust. You look away. Too late. You're already in danger of hellfire. You may as well take what pleasures you can get on the way down.
Now the question is, do you:
(1). pluck out your eyes and cut off your hands after you tend to the business at hand, or
(2). pluck out your eyes and cut off your hands before? If so, how do you facilitate, if you know what I mean? Or do you:
(3). ignore Jesus' command and relegate Him to the category of fussy perfectionist?
Last edited on Tue Jan 13th, 2009 12:00 am by stiggywiggy
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stiggywiggy
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Posted: Tue Jan 13th, 2009 12:04 am |
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Joe Don Baker wrote: AyHyperbole wrote: Hypothetical situation.
You're walking along, when a guy with a crazy look in his eye jumps out of the bushes and demands that you hand him the shirt on your back.
Despite the fact that the guy is trying to steal from you, he's really small and scrawny. Also, you happen to be armed.
What's your call, here?
What if I'm not wearing a shirt?
Then give him your big stick. You may not walk as tall, but at least you'll be giving away something.
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AyHyperbole
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Posted: Tue Jan 13th, 2009 12:05 am |
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stiggywiggy wrote: I got a better one for Christians of the male persuasion:
You're walking down the street. A hot little nubile number catches your eye. You glance her way. You appreciate. Suddenly your appreciation in infused with a slight desire. Then... BOOM.... your desire blossoms into full-blown lust. You look away. Too late. You're already in danger of hellfire. You may as well take what pleasures you can get on the way down.
Now the question is, do you:
(1). pluck out your eyes and cut off your hands after you tend to the business at hand, or
(2). pluck out your eyes and cut off your hands before? If so, how do you facilitate, if you know what I mean? Or do you:
(3). ignore Jesus' command and relegate Him to the category of fussy perfectionist?
Beyond the sarcasm here, are you making a point? Because it seems to me that the answer for nearly all Christians is an obvious (3), and Jesus really is treated as a fussy perfectionist whose commands you have absolutely no intention of even trying to follow.
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stiggywiggy
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Posted: Tue Jan 13th, 2009 12:13 am |
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AyHyperbole wrote: stiggywiggy wrote: I got a better one for Christians of the male persuasion:
You're walking down the street. A hot little nubile number catches your eye. You glance her way. You appreciate. Suddenly your appreciation in infused with a slight desire. Then... BOOM.... your desire blossoms into full-blown lust. You look away. Too late. You're already in danger of hellfire. You may as well take what pleasures you can get on the way down.
Now the question is, do you:
(1). pluck out your eyes and cut off your hands after you tend to the business at hand, or
(2). pluck out your eyes and cut off your hands before? If so, how do you facilitate, if you know what I mean? Or do you:
(3). ignore Jesus' command and relegate Him to the category of fussy perfectionist?
Beyond the sarcasm here, are you making a point? Because it seems to me that the answer for nearly all Christians is an obvious (3), and Jesus really is treated as a fussy perfectionist whose commands you have absolutely no intention of even trying to follow.
Yeah. It's the bane of Christianity, this thing called the flesh. Every serious Christian knows that by experience. And every serious Christian undergoes a blast of conviction from the Holy Spirit for his fleshly failures, a blast so loud and clear that it needn't be supplemented by a chorus of "Behavior Monitors" from the ranks of the atheists.
Last edited on Tue Jan 13th, 2009 12:19 am by stiggywiggy
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AyHyperbole
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Posted: Tue Jan 13th, 2009 12:23 am |
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stiggywiggy wrote: AyHyperbole wrote: stiggywiggy wrote: I got a better one for Christians of the male persuasion:
You're walking down the street. A hot little nubile number catches your eye. You glance her way. You appreciate. Suddenly your appreciation in infused with a slight desire. Then... BOOM.... your desire blossoms into full-blown lust. You look away. Too late. You're already in danger of hellfire. You may as well take what pleasures you can get on the way down.
Now the question is, do you:
(1). pluck out your eyes and cut off your hands after you tend to the business at hand, or
(2). pluck out your eyes and cut off your hands before? If so, how do you facilitate, if you know what I mean? Or do you:
(3). ignore Jesus' command and relegate Him to the category of fussy perfectionist?
Beyond the sarcasm here, are you making a point? Because it seems to me that the answer for nearly all Christians is an obvious (3), and Jesus really is treated as a fussy perfectionist whose commands you have absolutely no intention of even trying to follow.
Yeah. It's the bane of Christianity, this thing called the flesh. Every serious Christian knows that by experience. And every serious Christian undergoes a blast of conviction from the Holy Spirit for his fleshly failures, a blast so loud and clear that it needn't be supplemented by a chorus of "Behavior Monitors" from the ranks of the atheists.
Believing in resisting evil isn't the same as becoming aroused at the sight of an actress. Lust might be a "sin of the flesh," but belief in resisting evil is a deliberate rejection of a Biblical teaching.
As for a refusal to embrace poverty, well, that's somewhere in between.
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stiggywiggy
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Posted: Tue Jan 13th, 2009 12:31 am |
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AyHyperbole wrote: stiggywiggy wrote: AyHyperbole wrote: stiggywiggy wrote: I got a better one for Christians of the male persuasion:
You're walking down the street. A hot little nubile number catches your eye. You glance her way. You appreciate. Suddenly your appreciation in infused with a slight desire. Then... BOOM.... your desire blossoms into full-blown lust. You look away. Too late. You're already in danger of hellfire. You may as well take what pleasures you can get on the way down.
Now the question is, do you:
(1). pluck out your eyes and cut off your hands after you tend to the business at hand, or
(2). pluck out your eyes and cut off your hands before? If so, how do you facilitate, if you know what I mean? Or do you:
(3). ignore Jesus' command and relegate Him to the category of fussy perfectionist?
Beyond the sarcasm here, are you making a point? Because it seems to me that the answer for nearly all Christians is an obvious (3), and Jesus really is treated as a fussy perfectionist whose commands you have absolutely no intention of even trying to follow.
Yeah. It's the bane of Christianity, this thing called the flesh. Every serious Christian knows that by experience. And every serious Christian undergoes a blast of conviction from the Holy Spirit for his fleshly failures, a blast so loud and clear that it needn't be supplemented by a chorus of "Behavior Monitors" from the ranks of the atheists.
Believing in resisting evil isn't the same as becoming aroused at the sight of an actress. Lust might be a "sin of the flesh," but belief in resisting evil is a deliberate rejection of a Biblical teaching.
Yeah. I already gave my thoughts on the deliberate rejection of God's words. It occurs among all Christians. Paul deals with the agony of this failure to abide by "instructions" (he calls it the Law) in the sixth and seventh chapter of Romans, if you care to take a look. He specifically deals with his own struggles to overcome the sin of coveting.
Last edited on Tue Jan 13th, 2009 12:31 am by stiggywiggy
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AyHyperbole
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Posted: Tue Jan 13th, 2009 12:53 am |
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stiggywiggy wrote: Yeah. I already gave my thoughts on the deliberate rejection of God's words. It occurs among all Christians. Paul deals with the agony of this failure to abide by "instructions" (he calls it the Law) in the sixth and seventh chapter of Romans, if you care to take a look. He specifically deals with his own struggles to overcome the sin of coveting.
Yes, Paul talks about having the desire to do what is good, but the inability to carry it out.
But with respect to several of those Sermon of the Mount teachings, I don't see in most Christians even the desire to follow them. Do you have the desire not to resist criminals? Do you have the desire to give up all your possessions?
Believe me, I can tell the difference between a weakness of the flesh and a deliberate rejection of a code of morality.
When I smoke a cigarette, that's a weakness of the flesh. I want to quit, but it's very hard. When I pirate a CD, that's a deliberate rejection of a code of morality. I've been told it's wrong, but I don't believe it.
So, yeah, looking at a sexy girl: weakness of the flesh. I get it. But acquiring property and building wealth - that's absolutely deliberate. That's saying: Jesus, I hear you, but you're wrong.
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CaRM Reject
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Posted: Tue Jan 13th, 2009 12:57 am |
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AyHyperbole wrote: stiggywiggy wrote: Yeah. I already gave my thoughts on the deliberate rejection of God's words. It occurs among all Christians. Paul deals with the agony of this failure to abide by "instructions" (he calls it the Law) in the sixth and seventh chapter of Romans, if you care to take a look. He specifically deals with his own struggles to overcome the sin of coveting.
Yes, Paul talks about having the desire to do what is good, but the inability to carry it out.
But with respect to several of those Sermon of the Mount teachings, I don't see in most Christians even the desire to follow them. Do you have the desire not to resist criminals? Do you have the desire to give up all your possessions?
Believe me, I can tell the difference between a weakness of the flesh and a deliberate rejection of a code of morality.
When I smoke a cigarette, that's a weakness of the flesh. I want to quit, but it's very hard. When I pirate a CD, that's a deliberate rejection of a code of morality. I've been told it's wrong, but I don't believe it.
So, yeah, looking at a sexy girl: weakness of the flesh. I get it. But acquiring property and building wealth - that's absolutely deliberate. That's saying: Jesus, I hear you, but you're wrong.
Huh? Could someone please tell me what this has to do with the original poll?
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stiggywiggy
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Posted: Tue Jan 13th, 2009 01:00 am |
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AyHyperbole wrote: stiggywiggy wrote: Yeah. I already gave my thoughts on the deliberate rejection of God's words. It occurs among all Christians. Paul deals with the agony of this failure to abide by "instructions" (he calls it the Law) in the sixth and seventh chapter of Romans, if you care to take a look. He specifically deals with his own struggles to overcome the sin of coveting.
Yes, Paul talks about having the desire to do what is good, but the inability to carry it out.
But with respect to several of those Sermon of the Mount teachings, I don't see in most Christians even the desire to follow them.
I do.
Do you have the desire not to resist criminals?
Yes.
Do you have the desire to give up all your possessions?
Do I ever!! But alas, I know I am unlikely to do that. Some have; not many.
Believe me, I can tell the difference between a weakness of the flesh and a deliberate rejection of a code of morality.
I can't, and I undergo both constantly.
When I smoke a cigarette, that's a weakness of the flesh. I want to quit, but it's very hard.
Same here, but I feel no moral compunction to quit smoking. I do feel a moral compunction to love my enemy who assaults me.
So, yeah, looking at a sexy girl: weakness of the flesh. I get it. But acquiring property and building wealth - that's absolutely deliberate. That's saying: Jesus, I hear you, but you're wrong.
I don't think so; at least not for me, a believer. It's more like, "yeah you're right, Jesus. But I'm a piece of shit. I'm glad you love me anyway, and pray that I will emerge from my shittiness."
Last edited on Tue Jan 13th, 2009 01:07 am by stiggywiggy
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AyHyperbole
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Posted: Tue Jan 13th, 2009 01:54 am |
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stiggywiggy wrote:
So, yeah, looking at a sexy girl: weakness of the flesh. I get it. But acquiring property and building wealth - that's absolutely deliberate. That's saying: Jesus, I hear you, but you're wrong.
I don't think so; at least not for me, a believer. It's more like, "yeah you're right, Jesus. But I'm a piece of shit. I'm glad you love me anyway, and pray that I will emerge from my shittiness."
So let me see if I'm hearing you, here.
If I wrote you a letter that said, "Dear Stiggy: I intend to sue you for the deed to your house, citing emotional damages as a result of your ceaseless stiggying. Very Truly Yours, Hyperbole"
...then you think the morally correct response would be: "Dear Hyperbole: Enclosed please find the deed to my house, as well as the title to my car, in case you want that too"? ...but you're too weak to write that letter?
Because, personally, I think it's an absolutely morally incorrect response to do that. The morally correct response is: "Dear Hyperbole: Fuck you." That's not weakness. That's doing the right thing.
Thing is, I really suspect most Christians think that, too. And it wouldn't surprise me at all to learn that you're one of them.
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ToniLoryn
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Posted: Tue Jan 13th, 2009 01:54 am |
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I chose three because i wouldn't take my shirt off because it would be pornographic. I'd also be scared of the guy and i'd run from him. If my husband were with me, he'd give his shirt instead or knock the guy out, depending on his demeanor. If he seemed like a lunatic who was going to hurt us or if he was just a desperate man who needed a shirt.
John bought a one legged homeless man a buss ticket one time. He asked him where he wanted to go and the guy chose Florida because it was warm there and he gave him the ticket and some money for his trip. John'll give to anyone. Usually without being asked.
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AyHyperbole
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Posted: Tue Jan 13th, 2009 01:56 am |
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ToniLoryn wrote: I chose three because i wouldn't take my shirt off because it would be pornographic. I'd also be scared of the guy and i'd run from him. If my husband were with me, he'd give his shirt instead or knock the guy out, depending on his demeanor. If he seemed like a lunatic who was going to hurt us or if he was just a desperate man who needed a shirt.
Seems like Jesus is saying that doesn't matter: if he's a desperate man, you're supposed to exercise charity, but if he's a lunatic, you're not supposed to resist him. Jesus seems to be very clear in the Sermon on the Mount that you're not supposed to resist demands by evil people: that the correct Christian response is "Thank you, sir, may I have another."
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ToniLoryn
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Posted: Tue Jan 13th, 2009 02:02 am |
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AyHyperbole wrote: stiggywiggy wrote: I got a better one for Christians of the male persuasion:
You're walking down the street. A hot little nubile number catches your eye. You glance her way. You appreciate. Suddenly your appreciation in infused with a slight desire. Then... BOOM.... your desire blossoms into full-blown lust. You look away. Too late. You're already in danger of hellfire. You may as well take what pleasures you can get on the way down.
Now the question is, do you:
(1). pluck out your eyes and cut off your hands after you tend to the business at hand, or
(2). pluck out your eyes and cut off your hands before? If so, how do you facilitate, if you know what I mean? Or do you:
(3). ignore Jesus' command and relegate Him to the category of fussy perfectionist?
Beyond the sarcasm here, are you making a point? Because it seems to me that the answer for nearly all Christians is an obvious (3), and Jesus really is treated as a fussy perfectionist whose commands you have absolutely no intention of even trying to follow.
Give to those who ask of you is one of the scriptures John and i really feel admonished about. We take that very seriously. And then also giving out of your need. IOW, not using, "Do i have enough of it" as a factor in deciding whether you should give or not. Though, i'll tell you, i hardly ever give to the bell ringers in front of the grocery store. The reason being, the guilt i feel when i walk passed them pisses me off and so i refuse in my mind to cow down to that feeling. Also, i rarely buy from little children selling candy bars for various reasons. But we'll always give to the men who stand on the side of the highway with signs. And i saw a man walking in the freezing cold on my way back from work and i came home and asked John to drive back out with me so we could give him a ride. John sat behind the guy in the back seat so he could restrain him if he were to try anything and it turned out he was just getting out of the county jail! We drove him about four miles down the road and he was cool. He didn't pull anything weird. Heh.
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Henry Sidgwick
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Posted: Tue Jan 13th, 2009 02:02 am |
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AyHyperbole wrote: ToniLoryn wrote: I chose three because i wouldn't take my shirt off because it would be pornographic. I'd also be scared of the guy and i'd run from him. If my husband were with me, he'd give his shirt instead or knock the guy out, depending on his demeanor. If he seemed like a lunatic who was going to hurt us or if he was just a desperate man who needed a shirt.
Seems like Jesus is saying that doesn't matter: if he's a desperate man, you're supposed to exercise charity, but if he's a lunatic, you're not supposed to resist him. Jesus seems to be very clear in the Sermon on the Mount that you're not supposed to resist demands by evil people: that the correct Christian response is "Thank you, sir, may I have another."
That's a very common misunderstanding of the Sermon on the Mount. The real message is not "do not resist evil" but "do not resist evil in kind".
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Buttons
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Posted: Tue Jan 13th, 2009 02:07 am |
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ToniLoryn wrote: AyHyperbole wrote: stiggywiggy wrote: I got a better one for Christians of the male persuasion:
You're walking down the street. A hot little nubile number catches your eye. You glance her way. You appreciate. Suddenly your appreciation in infused with a slight desire. Then... BOOM.... your desire blossoms into full-blown lust. You look away. Too late. You're already in danger of hellfire. You may as well take what pleasures you can get on the way down.
Now the question is, do you:
(1). pluck out your eyes and cut off your hands after you tend to the business at hand, or
(2). pluck out your eyes and cut off your hands before? If so, how do you facilitate, if you know what I mean? Or do you:
(3). ignore Jesus' command and relegate Him to the category of fussy perfectionist?
Beyond the sarcasm here, are you making a point? Because it seems to me that the answer for nearly all Christians is an obvious (3), and Jesus really is treated as a fussy perfectionist whose commands you have absolutely no intention of even trying to follow.
Give to those who ask of you is one of the scriptures John and i really feel admonished about. We take that very seriously. And then also giving out of your need. IOW, not using, "Do i have enough of it" as a factor in deciding whether you should give or not. Though, i'll tell you, i hardly ever give to the bell ringers in front of the grocery store. The reason being, the guilt i feel when i walk passed them pisses me off and so i refuse in my mind to cow down to that feeling. Also, i rarely buy from little children selling candy bars for various reasons. But we'll always give to the men who stand on the side of the highway with signs. And i saw a man walking in the freezing cold on my way back from work and i came home and asked John to drive back out with me so we could give him a ride. John sat behind the guy in the back seat so he could restrain him if he were to try anything and it turned out he was just getting out of the county jail! We drove him about four miles down the road and he was cool. He didn't pull anything weird. Heh.
grin...so you'll give freely to the individual homeless man but not to someone donating their day off to solicit funds for the homeless collective? LOL
I know what you mean about the feeling though. I don't want to be made to feel OBLIGATED to give...then again, I have no religious code that instructs me to do so...and yet I still feel guilt when I want past them.
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