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Slimmy Joan
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Posted: Mon Dec 1st, 2008 07:21 pm |
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AyHyperbole wrote: Carol2 wrote: Aldaron wrote: Carol2 wrote: People sometimes kill in the name of God. It's not a reflection on God, it's a reflection on people. We're all sinners.
So when an atheist kills someone, it's in the name of atheism.
But when a Christian kills someone, it's just because he's a sinner.
Nice double-standard.
When did I ever say that?
You didn't. But the fact that you jumped in to say that Christian murders aren't a reflection on Christianity, but didn't mention that atheist murders aren't a reflection on atheism, kind of made it look like you were here to take up hiram and Sloan's side of the argument.
Because those two are actually asserting that atheism leads to murder, and the facts just don't support it.
Atheists are losers.Attachment: LOSERPOSTER.jpg (Downloaded 48 times)
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Carol2
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Posted: Mon Dec 1st, 2008 08:11 pm |
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The difference between an atheist sinning and a Christian sinning is that the Christian knows he's sinning and it probably hurts him to do so.
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manonfire
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Posted: Mon Dec 1st, 2008 09:59 pm |
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Carol2 wrote: The difference between an atheist sinning and a Christian sinning is that the Christian knows he's sinning and it probably hurts him to do so.
Yes, the Christian does not want to sin, and feels bad when he does. Atheists do not believe in such a thing as sin. Consequently, they feel no responsibility or accountabilty for their actions.
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Aldaron
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Posted: Mon Dec 1st, 2008 10:14 pm |
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manonfire wrote: Carol2 wrote: The difference between an atheist sinning and a Christian sinning is that the Christian knows he's sinning and it probably hurts him to do so.
Yes, the Christian does not want to sin, and feels bad when he does. Atheists do not believe in such a thing as sin. Consequently, they feel no responsibility or accountabilty for their actions.
Not true. We feel responsibility and accountability 100% from our own consiences and mores.
Unlike Christians who believe that no matter what they do they'll be forgiven and go to heaven. That's probably why atheists are vastly under-represented in prisons...
Last edited on Mon Dec 1st, 2008 10:15 pm by Aldaron
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Torquemada
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Posted: Mon Dec 1st, 2008 10:21 pm |
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| I have to agree with Aldaron on this one. The consistent atheist has to deal with the consequences of his actions in this present life; the Christian, on the other hand, believes that they've already been forgiven by Jesus, so even if they feel bad for their actions, there are no ultimate consequences for doing good or evil. I am also much more impressed by an atheist who does good for its own sake, than by a Christian who does a good deed to suck up to God. I suspect that if there is a God, he would feel the same way. Think about it this way - would you rather that your kids learn to delight in doing good for its own sake, or that they do good deeds in the hopes of scoring a piece of candy from mom and dad? Wouldn't you want to teach your kids to do good even when you're not looking?
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Merlin
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Posted: Mon Dec 1st, 2008 10:28 pm |
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Yes, the Christian does not want to sin, and feels bad when he does So when you curse and lie and insult here, does it make you feel bad?
Carol, do you feel bad about abusing marijuana?
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AyHyperbole
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Posted: Tue Dec 2nd, 2008 12:45 am |
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Carol2 wrote: The difference between an atheist sinning and a Christian sinning is that the Christian knows he's sinning and it probably hurts him to do so.
I can guarantee you that it hurts the atheist to do the vast majority of the things Christians would define as "sin."
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Aldaron
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Posted: Tue Dec 2nd, 2008 04:15 am |
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Bump for Hiram...
Ready to apologise for lying about Richard Dawkins, Hiram?
Or will you maintain the quote-mined, out-of-context bit you quoted as suggesting Dawkins supported Hitler?
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Carol2
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Posted: Tue Dec 2nd, 2008 05:15 am |
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Aldaron wrote: Unlike Christians who believe that no matter what they do they'll be forgiven and go to heaven. That's probably why atheists are vastly under-represented in prisons...
That is, actually, a good point, Hypes. Christians know that they will be forgiven, but the idea, of course is to be some kind of concious representative of Jesus for others.
However, as for the alleged under-representation of atheists in prison, do you have the statistics to back that up? I wouldn't be surpised to learn that many prisoners are receptive to prosyletizing while in prison, but I question the statement that most prisoners where Christians before landing in jail.
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prodomal
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Posted: Tue Dec 2nd, 2008 06:11 am |
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Carol2 wrote: Aldaron wrote: Unlike Christians who believe that no matter what they do they'll be forgiven and go to heaven. That's probably why atheists are vastly under-represented in prisons...
That is, actually, a good point, Hypes. Christians know that they will be forgiven, but the idea, of course is to be some kind of concious representative of Jesus for others.
However, as for the alleged under-representation of atheists in prison, do you have the statistics to back that up? I wouldn't be surpised to learn that many prisoners are receptive to prosyletizing while in prison, but I question the statement that most prisoners where Christians before landing in jail. According to the FBI in 1997 - I'll do some more digging, but these were the most current stats I could find quickly. If there are none available, I'm sure updated stats will be available soon.
Catholic 29267 39.164%
Protestant 26162 35.008%
Muslim 5435 7.273%
American Indian 2408 3.222%
Nation 1734 2.320%
Rasta 1485 1.987%
Jewish 1325 1.773%
Church of Christ 1303 1.744%
Pentecostal 1093 1.463%
Moorish 1066 1.426%
Buddhist 882 1.180%
Jehovah Witness 665 0.890%
Adventist 621 0.831%
Orthodox 375 0.502%
Mormon 298 0.399%
Scientology 190 0.254%
Atheist 156 0.209%
Hindu 119 0.159%
Santeria 117 0.157%
Sikh 14 0.019%
Bahai 9 0.012%
Krishna 7 0.009%
So if we add up all Christian faiths (I'll leave out JWs, Aventsists, orthodox, and Mormons), Christians make up ~76% of the prison population. Atheists: ~ 0.209%, which is well under the percentage of atheists in the general population.
As for how religious they were before they went in I couldn't find any stats. However, those stats do sort of blow the claim that atheist are immoral degenerates who rape kittens and nail puppies to church doors because they don't have any values out of the water, imo. I did find this though:
In "The New Criminology," Max D. Schlapp and Edward E. Smith say that two generations of statisticians found that the ratio of convicts without religious training is about 1/10th of 1%.
If this is true, then the claim that most prisoners find religion in prison would appear to be false. Again, you can draw many conclusions from that quote, and I just happened to stumble upon it and have no knowledge of its context or author, so I can't speak much about its claim. If you're interested in the subject, here's something to start with if you want to start researching. 
W.T. Root, Professor of Psychology at the University of Pittsburgh, examined 1,916 prisoners and said, "Indifference to religion, due to thought, strengthens character," adding that Unitarians, Agnostics, Atheists and Free-Thinkers were absent from penitentiaries, or nearly so.
This also suggests that those who are in prision were religious to some degree before they went in. Same caveats apply from above.
What that all means, I'm not sure. I'll have to look into it a bit more, but it's a jumping off point if you're interested in researching the topic.
Anecdotally many prisoners change religion while in prison. Islam gains quite a few Christian converts within the prison system.
Last edited on Tue Dec 2nd, 2008 06:35 am by prodomal
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Merlin
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Posted: Tue Dec 2nd, 2008 07:03 am |
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It really doesn't look good when people run from a thread, so I'll give folks another chance to answer.
hiram and carol both said that christians don't like to sin and feel bad when they sin.
My questions are, then:
hiram, when you lie on the boards here, or curse or deliberately insult someone, does it make you feel bad?
carol, does it make you feel bad when you smoke marijuana?
If, by some chance, neither of you noticed my questions, I can bring them to your attention in other ways.
M.
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"... it would be better for her to tie a heavy rock around her neck and jump into the midddle of deep bayou than it would to lay a heavy guilt-trip on any of God's little ones . . ."
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prodomal
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Posted: Tue Dec 2nd, 2008 07:15 am |
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Merlin wrote: It really doesn't look good when people run from a thread, so I'll give folks another chance to answer.
hiram and carol both said that christians don't like to sin and feel bad when they sin.
My questions are, then:
hiram, when you lie on the boards here, or curse or deliberately insult someone, does it make you feel bad?
carol, does it make you feel bad when you smoke marijuana?
If, by some chance, neither of you noticed my questions, I can bring them to your attention in other ways.
M.
Smoking marijuana isn't a sin.  Better than booze. Alcohol is a poison. Marijuana on the other hand dose not increase risk for lung cancer, and evidence of its addictive properties are scant. Imagine how much better it would make this country if we used the money spent on fighting marijuana usage, locking up minor offenders, and the money made by making it legal and taxing it were spent on education?
Grrrr....
/derailment end.
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Carol2
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Posted: Tue Dec 2nd, 2008 07:17 am |
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Merlin wrote: carol, does it make you feel bad when you smoke marijuana? No, not at all. I guess I don't feel that I "abuse" it.
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HardyHeaven
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Posted: Wed Dec 3rd, 2008 03:31 am |
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Torquemada wrote: I have to agree with Aldaron on this one. The consistent atheist has to deal with the consequences of his actions in this present life; the Christian, on the other hand, believes that they've already been forgiven by Jesus, so even if they feel bad for their actions, there are no ultimate consequences for doing good or evil. I am also much more impressed by an atheist who does good for its own sake, than by a Christian who does a good deed to suck up to God. I suspect that if there is a God, he would feel the same way. Think about it this way - would you rather that your kids learn to delight in doing good for its own sake, or that they do good deeds in the hopes of scoring a piece of candy from mom and dad? Wouldn't you want to teach your kids to do good even when you're not looking?
I'll give this post my official 'Amen'. 
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HardyHeaven
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Posted: Wed Dec 3rd, 2008 03:36 am |
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Carol2 wrote: No, not at all. I guess I don't feel that I "abuse" it.
Replace the words 'drink' or 'drinking' with the words 'smoke' or 'smoking' and answer these 20 Questions.
How'd you fare?
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If you don't know which God to worship, why don't you start with the one you've been lying to all these years? --A.A. Catchy Phrase #372
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ToniLoryn
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Posted: Wed Dec 3rd, 2008 03:41 am |
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Torquemada wrote: I have to agree with Aldaron on this one. The consistent atheist has to deal with the consequences of his actions in this present life; the Christian, on the other hand, believes that they've already been forgiven by Jesus, so even if they feel bad for their actions, there are no ultimate consequences for doing good or evil. Total crap. It's a curse to be a Christian. You can't sin and get away with it ever. There's conviction from the Holy Spirit and then there's going under condemnation over sinning. There's personal guilt on top of that. To be a Christian is to suffer several kinds of guilt. I don't know (or want to know) anyone who sins freely because they're "forgiven." Since i don't believe i can do that and still be saved, i have to be mindful of everything i do. There are indeed ultimate consequences for good and evil. There's storing things up in heaven as opposed to earth and there's a chance of losing one's salvation if you just give up and go your own route. You have a pretty messed up idea of what Christians think and do. I am also much more impressed by an atheist who does good for its own sake, than by a Christian who does a good deed to suck up to God. God, you're an idiot. WHERE do you get this from? How can you possibly know if i do something good it's because i'm SUCKING UP TO GOD? Why on earth can't a Christian derive joy from helping someone else and it not be a deed to score brownie points? Just how many Christians do you know anyway? You sound totally ignorant about them. I suspect that if there is a God, he would feel the same way. Of course, since he's modeled after you. Think about it this way - would you rather that your kids learn to delight in doing good for its own sake, or that they do good deeds in the hopes of scoring a piece of candy from mom and dad? Wouldn't you want to teach your kids to do good even when you're not looking?
How can i even answer this? If you really know Christians like this, then i'd question if they are.
Gayle, Pearls, Stiggy, hiram, carol, HH, met, Wayne, Jimmy, et al all do good things purely to score points for God? We all sin without care because we're forgiven and we're all so disingenuous about good deeds because it's for no reason other than to score points. Good luck with your POV.
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I don't feel a need for any histrionics. Really, I don't give a flyin'one-legged baboon ass-fuck about it. What the hell does anyone's behavior other than your own have to do with you? Are you some certified Fruit Inspector? Wayne/Stiggy
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ToniLoryn
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Posted: Wed Dec 3rd, 2008 03:45 am |
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manonfire wrote: Carol2 wrote: The difference between an atheist sinning and a Christian sinning is that the Christian knows he's sinning and it probably hurts him to do so.
Yes, the Christian does not want to sin, and feels bad when he does. Atheists do not believe in such a thing as sin. Consequently, they feel no responsibility or accountabilty for their actions.
I disagree on both counts. How incredibly foolish to say/think atheists have no moral code. GOD Himself gave them a conscious. You make it sound like atheists are sociopaths because they don't believe in God. And i think the Christian DOES want to sin and feels bad when they do it.
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I don't feel a need for any histrionics. Really, I don't give a flyin'one-legged baboon ass-fuck about it. What the hell does anyone's behavior other than your own have to do with you? Are you some certified Fruit Inspector? Wayne/Stiggy
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Merlin
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Posted: Wed Dec 3rd, 2008 04:59 am |
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Smoking marijuana isn't a sin Christians think it is. The person asked professes to be a christian.
Marijuana on the other hand dose not increase risk for lung cancer, yes it does.
evidence of its addictive properties are scant. Also not true.
I don't personally give a fuck if you want to fire up 5 pounds of weed a week, don't care if you get a million diseases from it or not, and don't care if it's legalized or explodes when you light it up. I couldn't care less about weed smoking.
I question why someone would lecture nonchristians and tell them that CHRISTIANS feel bad when they sin because they are CHRISTIANS while atheists are immoral swine, and then when questioned about thier own drug abuse, declare that they don't feel bad about it at all.
What. a. load. of. horse. shit.
Of course I don't think carol or hiram are christians at all, so her answer is about what I expected.
christians feel bad when they do something wrong
carol uses illegal drugs
it doesn't bother her at all to do this
You do the math.
M.
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"... it would be better for her to tie a heavy rock around her neck and jump into the midddle of deep bayou than it would to lay a heavy guilt-trip on any of God's little ones . . ."
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Aldaron
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Posted: Wed Dec 3rd, 2008 05:02 am |
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ToniLoryn wrote: manonfire wrote: Carol2 wrote: The difference between an atheist sinning and a Christian sinning is that the Christian knows he's sinning and it probably hurts him to do so.
Yes, the Christian does not want to sin, and feels bad when he does. Atheists do not believe in such a thing as sin. Consequently, they feel no responsibility or accountabilty for their actions.
I disagree on both counts. How incredibly foolish to say/think atheists have no moral code. GOD Himself gave them a conscious. You make it sound like atheists are sociopaths because they don't believe in God. And i think the Christian DOES want to sin and feels bad when they do it.
Hiram thinks we are sociopaths.
It makes it a little hard for him to figure out, however, why atheists are so vastly under-represented in prisons.
But that's okay...we don't want to tax Hiram, especially not when he's doing so well with his shoe-laces at the moment.
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J. Sloan
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Posted: Wed Dec 3rd, 2008 06:49 am |
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Aldaron wrote: ToniLoryn wrote: manonfire wrote: Carol2 wrote: The difference between an atheist sinning and a Christian sinning is that the Christian knows he's sinning and it probably hurts him to do so.
Yes, the Christian does not want to sin, and feels bad when he does. Atheists do not believe in such a thing as sin. Consequently, they feel no responsibility or accountabilty for their actions.
I disagree on both counts. How incredibly foolish to say/think atheists have no moral code. GOD Himself gave them a conscious. You make it sound like atheists are sociopaths because they don't believe in God. And i think the Christian DOES want to sin and feels bad when they do it.
Hiram thinks we are sociopaths.
It makes it a little hard for him to figure out, however, why atheists are so vastly under-represented in prisons.
But that's okay...we don't want to tax Hiram, especially not when he's doing so well with his shoe-laces at the moment.
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