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manonfire
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Posted: Mon Nov 24th, 2008 11:28 pm |
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HardyHeaven wrote:
AyHyperbole wrote: First date sex usually isn't very good for relationships. I don't think it's "immoral" to have first date sex - I just think it's counter-productive, assuming you want there to be more than one date.
How does that work, then? If he really doesn't want a relationship, and since you didn't put out on the first date, I guess he won't be calling for a second date, if sex is all he's looking for, right? (And, btw, I doubt that this guy had any real thought that I would have sex with him as a result of this date. He agreed to go on the date (I asked him), but I hadn't put out any 'let's go to dinner then jump into bed' feelers prior to the movie).
How does a guy know if he's "looking for a relationship" or not? Like, I can say, right now, that I'm not looking for a relationship. That's because when I think through what a 'relationship' is for me: it would mean having to share my time, my space, acclimating my kid to another human body around all the time. Having to shave my legs more often, having to keep my house cleaner, having to acquiese to another's opinion every once in a while, etc. Of course I'm not looking for that kind of relationship.
But don't relationships just happen? Neither person may be really 'looking' for a relationship, but suddenly you meet someone and you both hit it off - before you know it, you're in a relationship.
It seems that there are people (guys even) who say, "Hey, I'm ready to settle down. I'm tired of playing the field. I'm looking for someone with whom to have a relationship." It's rare to find such men, but I hear they're out there. 
OTOH, usually NONE of us is really looking for a relationship, right? We want to date, we want to mix and mingle, and most of the time, the relationship part -- well, it just happens.
When guys wake up in the morning next to a woman who's still for all intents and purposes a stranger, they have a tendency to panic - like "Whoa, what the hell was that, and how does this have the potential to disrupt my life, and how do I get away?"
See, that's how I feel. I panic thinking about how things have the potential to disrupt my life.
Women tend to think we have this evil Machiavellian game that we play, where we lie to women about our intentions to get them in the sack, and then break off communication, but I think that's the rare exception rather than the rule. Unfortunately, though, I can see how women might think we're doing that.
I know that I personally think that you all are doing that. It makes absolutely no sense. You say you want sex, but when we give you sex, you run. If we don't give you sex, you move on to someone who will give you sex. We can't win.
Because a common thing with guys is that we'll be totally up-front and honest about our intentions, and then we'll start feeling lust, and we'll kind of forget our intentions, and then there's the sex, and then there's the panic.
You're left with two choices then. You date someone repeatedly and intentionally don't have sex with her (because you want to keep her). Or you go out and have sex with someone with whom you have no feelings, nor any intention of establishing a relationship. That's queer.
I think by the time most guys get out of his 20s, they kind of get that, but, you know, it's still kind of hard to stick to a game plan like "kiss her goodnight" when your brain is screaming "YOU MUST HAVE SEX WITH THIS WOMAN." So, actually, I think a lot of guys appreciate a little bit of help, there - a little "nah, I'm not up for first date sex."
Well, I'm glad I handled my date the way that I did then. Thanks for the encouragement. (I guess calling him tonight to suggest that we immediately have sex would be a bad thing then, huh?)
Naturally, guys tend to ask why, and that can be an awkward conversation. I don't really have any advice for you. I've had dates where it wasn't too awkward and it was pretty easy for us to wait, and I've had dates where it was simply too awkward to get to the second date. Soooo.... best of luck.
But, yeah, refusing first-date sex doesn't have to mean you're a Puritan. It can simply mean that you have higher hopes for the relationship than a one-night stand. Nothing wrong with that, eh?
I hope there's nothing wrong with it. He seems like a nice guy. I'd like to explore things further.
How do you interpret the AA adage that says not to have a 'relationship' your first year of sobriety, Hype? Do you think that means emotional relationships, sexual relationships, or both?
That is advice for the female alkies, not the males.
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Merlin
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Posted: Mon Nov 24th, 2008 11:43 pm |
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| So you're a 4F guy, hiram?
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HardyHeaven
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Posted: Tue Nov 25th, 2008 12:01 am |
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manonfire wrote:That is advice for the female alkies, not the males.
Well, that's just sheer and utter crap, Hiram.
The same advice is given to all in AA, regardless of gender.
Man, you think like a neanderthal. 
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If you don't know which God to worship, why don't you start with the one you've been lying to all these years? --A.A. Catchy Phrase #372
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HardyHeaven
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Posted: Tue Nov 25th, 2008 12:03 am |
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Merlin wrote: Most women, though, get flutters in their stomach and starry eyes and heart pains from the first words the guy says and as soon as pants come off, all they can think is "he loves me!"
I hate it when you're right, but you hit me right between the eyes with this one, M.
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HardyHeaven
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Posted: Tue Nov 25th, 2008 12:04 am |
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Merlin wrote: So you're a 4F guy, hiram?
What are the 4 F's, Merlin?
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If you don't know which God to worship, why don't you start with the one you've been lying to all these years? --A.A. Catchy Phrase #372
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HardyHeaven
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Posted: Tue Nov 25th, 2008 12:07 am |
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NorrinRadd wrote: Ronson wrote: It's been a long time since the free-love era so I find it strange that people expect to jump into bed on their first date anymore. Sorry to say, this guy sounds a bit shallow to me. Even when I was a horndog teenager I was more into the fantasy of sudden sexual encounters than the reality of them. Hopping into bed with a virtual stranger is kinda unsettling.
Yes, this whole thread is pretty alien to me. Even when I was a horndog teen -- and even MORE of a horndog in college -- there's no way I'd have done that. Hell, I barely went so far as to give a goodnight kiss on the forehead on the first date.
I want to be clear about this one thing: him 'asking me to bed' solely consisted of him saying, in a hushed tone, "I'd like to take you home with me."
He wasn't pushy. He wasn't pouty. He didn't impose himself. He expressed a desire, which I declined, and he left it at that. He's really laid back. He wasn't acting like a horn-dog.
After the meeting tonight, he gave me a goodnight kiss on the forehead, which is entirely appropriate for the group situation. Other than that, it was a normal AA meeting, hanging out with friends, in what used to be a smoke-filled room (before the smoking laws changed), a bunch of alcoholics happily staying sober one day at a time.
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If you don't know which God to worship, why don't you start with the one you've been lying to all these years? --A.A. Catchy Phrase #372
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HardyHeaven
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Posted: Tue Nov 25th, 2008 12:10 am |
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rvhill wrote: It not that men have no desire for a relationship. It that hit it has nothing to do with a relationship. for a man hiting it, is hiting it. a relationship is a relationship.
I appreciate your honesty.
I've decided that, once I'm ready, I want both. I want a romantic relationship with lots of hitting it.
One day ... my prince will come ....
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If you don't know which God to worship, why don't you start with the one you've been lying to all these years? --A.A. Catchy Phrase #372
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manonfire
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Posted: Tue Nov 25th, 2008 12:11 am |
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Merlin wrote:
So you're a 4F guy, hiram?
Not since I fell in love with my wife.
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Merlin
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Posted: Tue Nov 25th, 2008 12:13 am |
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Find 'em, Feel 'em, Fuck 'em & Forget 'em.
Well, you ASKED.
It's weird... I have only touched one woman in my life and wouldn't touch another one if you held a gun to my head because I think that would be cheating and I would seriously rather die first... but men? heh, it's bring me another one just like the other one. That's because I relate to women emotionally and men are just fuck buddies, of which yes, I have had many.
I have found the problem with "normal" men (the ones that don't come right out and tell you they want a fuckbuddy and nothing else) is that if I have sex with them, the next thing out of their mouth is "I love youuuuuuuuuuu...." and I'm there thinking, "Wot? I don't even LIKE you, I was just bored the other night !" It isn't fair to them to lead them on in expectation of a relationship and more that's already dead in the water.
Just be careful, HH. There's no free lunch. You're gonna pay one way or the other.... if you keep your freedom, you will be lonely. If you have a relationship, they will drive you crazy. True love can be found, but it can't be rushed.
Everybody has to do what's best for them and theirs.
Last edited on Tue Nov 25th, 2008 12:15 am by Merlin
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"... it would be better for her to tie a heavy rock around her neck and jump into the midddle of deep bayou than it would to lay a heavy guilt-trip on any of God's little ones . . ."
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rvhill
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Posted: Tue Nov 25th, 2008 12:18 am |
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HardyHeaven wrote: rvhill wrote: It not that men have no desire for a relationship. It that hit it has nothing to do with a relationship. for a man hiting it, is hiting it. a relationship is a relationship.
I appreciate your honesty.
I've decided that, once I'm ready, I want both. I want a romantic relationship with lots of hitting it.
One day ... my prince will come ....
for us it kind of like peanut butter and Jelly. you can have the butter. you can have the Jelly. You can have peanut butter and jellly.
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HardyHeaven
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Posted: Tue Nov 25th, 2008 12:22 am |
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rvhill wrote: HardyHeaven wrote: rvhill wrote: It not that men have no desire for a relationship. It that hit it has nothing to do with a relationship. for a man hiting it, is hiting it. a relationship is a relationship.
I appreciate your honesty.
I've decided that, once I'm ready, I want both. I want a romantic relationship with lots of hitting it.
One day ... my prince will come ....
for us it kind of like peanut butter and Jelly. you can have the butter. you can have the Jelly. You can have peanut butter and jellly.
That's cool.
Yeah, I want the whole sandwich!
Yum!!
(I'll be careful, Merlin. I've got lots of time to sort these things out.)
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If you don't know which God to worship, why don't you start with the one you've been lying to all these years? --A.A. Catchy Phrase #372
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manonfire
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Posted: Tue Nov 25th, 2008 02:06 am |
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I'm wondering if he knows about your HIV status. That might enter into his decision.
If HH is HIV positive, I would hope she would have better sense than to have vaginal sex with some guy. In fact, if some idiot became HIV positive because of having sex with her, she could and most probably would, go to jail.
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HardyHeaven
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Posted: Tue Nov 25th, 2008 02:31 am |
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manonfire wrote: I'm wondering if he knows about your HIV status. That might enter into his decision.
If HH is HIV positive, I would hope she would have better sense than to have vaginal sex with some guy. In fact, if some idiot became HIV positive because of having sex with her, she could and most probably would, go to jail.
Try reading the thread, Hiram.
I've made comments in at least 3 different posts that indicate that he does indeed know about my HIV status.
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If you don't know which God to worship, why don't you start with the one you've been lying to all these years? --A.A. Catchy Phrase #372
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AyHyperbole
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Posted: Tue Nov 25th, 2008 07:14 am |
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HardyHeaven wrote: AyHyperbole wrote: First date sex usually isn't very good for relationships. I don't think it's "immoral" to have first date sex - I just think it's counter-productive, assuming you want there to be more than one date.
How does that work, then? If he really doesn't want a relationship, and since you didn't put out on the first date, I guess he won't be calling for a second date, if sex is all he's looking for, right? (And, btw, I doubt that this guy had any real thought that I would have sex with him as a result of this date. He agreed to go on the date (I asked him), but I hadn't put out any 'let's go to dinner then jump into bed' feelers prior to the movie).
How does a guy know if he's "looking for a relationship" or not? Like, I can say, right now, that I'm not looking for a relationship. That's because when I think through what a 'relationship' is for me: it would mean having to share my time, my space, acclimating my kid to another human body around all the time. Having to shave my legs more often, having to keep my house cleaner, having to acquiese to another's opinion every once in a while, etc. Of course I'm not looking for that kind of relationship.
But don't relationships just happen? Neither person may be really 'looking' for a relationship, but suddenly you meet someone and you both hit it off - before you know it, you're in a relationship.
It seems that there are people (guys even) who say, "Hey, I'm ready to settle down. I'm tired of playing the field. I'm looking for someone with whom to have a relationship." It's rare to find such men, but I hear they're out there.
OTOH, usually NONE of us is really looking for a relationship, right? We want to date, we want to mix and mingle, and most of the time, the relationship part -- well, it just happens.
I think there's a lot of variation between people as far as the stuff you're talking about.
Yes, there are definitely people out there who are "looking for a relationship" - both male and female. And I'm one of them. I'm not "tired of playing the field"; I've never been able to play the field. And that's because I tend to be painfully formal. Not shy - just formal. I'm always too focused on whatever I'm doing to really notice other people.
At work, I work. If people talk to me about non-work stuff, I get uncomfortable, because I'm not working. When I'm doing some kind of activity, I throw myself at it. Band practice is for trying to improve my skill at music. Bowling is for trying to knock down more pins. I don't want to talk about my favorite cuddling position when I'm bowling. That would be getting chocolate in my peanut butter. And I'm the kind of guy who likes to eat peanut butter, and then wait a while, and then eat chocolate.
So the chance of me sort of "falling into" a relationship is pretty low. Like in the other thread, where people were telling me I could meet women at the grocery store - that's totally alien to me. The grocery store is where I buy food. Food and women are two different things.
Really, the only way it's ever worked for me is I meet a girl who's looking for a relationship, and we go out on dates, and we see if we're compatible. Maybe when I meet "the one," it'll be otherwise. Maybe not.
I pretty much always call a girl for a second date, whether we had sex or not. I mean, unless she's just unsufferably horrible, everyone deserves a second chance. But my attitude is different depending on how the first date went. A second date after no sex is a girl I'm trying to get to know. A second date after sex, well, I just feel this anxiety, like there's a cougar in the room and it's going to eat me. There's all these expectations and all this unspoken crap and it's just so much pressure.
When guys wake up in the morning next to a woman who's still for all intents and purposes a stranger, they have a tendency to panic - like "Whoa, what the hell was that, and how does this have the potential to disrupt my life, and how do I get away?" See, that's how I feel. I panic thinking about how things have the potential to disrupt my life.
Yeah, I think on a lot of levels, neither men nor women want first-date sex. It's just that we men have this little voice in our heads that screams "YOU MUST HAVE SEX" and it is very hard to shut it off. Sometimes not even ten seconds after the sex we're thinking "Aw, fuck, I gave in to the fucking voice. Fuck."
There is a lot of obscenity in my internal monologue sometimes.
Women tend to think we have this evil Machiavellian game that we play, where we lie to women about our intentions to get them in the sack, and then break off communication, but I think that's the rare exception rather than the rule. Unfortunately, though, I can see how women might think we're doing that. I know that I personally think that you all are doing that. It makes absolutely no sense. You say you want sex, but when we give you sex, you run. If we don't give you sex, you move on to someone who will give you sex. We can't win .
Well, I think there are some guys who do it on purpose, but believe it or not, I think that's the exception rather than the rule. I think most guys will call back for a second date if there's chemistry there.
A lot of the time there's just no chemistry there. You know how many girls I have chemistry with? I can think of maybe like ten girls I've ever met who I even have conversational chemistry with - who I can even enjoy a conversation with. Maybe ten.
I don't know. I just have so many pet peeves. Like, you know what I hate? People who say "Let's change the subject." Like: "Hey, I'm just going to throw this whole conversation in your lap. It's yours to construct, and I'll just enjoy it when I like it and pass judgment on it when I don't."
If you want to change the subject, segue into a new fucking subject. Very few girls who have proposed a subject change have ever made it to the second date with me.
Maybe some people are a little more one-size-fits-all than I am, but I think with nearly all of us the deck is massively stacked against us. And that's just conversational chemistry. Don't even get me started on sexual chemistry. I think I've experienced that once in my life, and it was with a girl I had no conversational chemistry with.
Because a common thing with guys is that we'll be totally up-front and honest about our intentions, and then we'll start feeling lust, and we'll kind of forget our intentions, and then there's the sex, and then there's the panic. You're left with two choices then. You date someone repeatedly and intentionally don't have sex with her (because you want to keep her). Or you go out and have sex with someone with whom you have no feelings, nor any intention of establishing a relationship. That's queer.
Well, what one needs to do, as a guy, is find the self-discipline to date a girl enough times that you actually start to incorporate her into your life. And once you're comfortable having her around a lot, that's when it's time for the sex. Because then you won't have the "HOW WILL THIS DISRUPT MY LIFE" panic, because you know it really won't.
Self-discipline, though - whew. It's a hard thing, as we alcoholics know. In fact, I wonder if it's the same thing as it is with alcoholism, where you simply can't rely on it. I wonder if I should be praying to a higher power to help me not have sex with my date.
I think by the time most guys get out of his 20s, they kind of get that, but, you know, it's still kind of hard to stick to a game plan like "kiss her goodnight" when your brain is screaming "YOU MUST HAVE SEX WITH THIS WOMAN." So, actually, I think a lot of guys appreciate a little bit of help, there - a little "nah, I'm not up for first date sex." Well, I'm glad I handled my date the way that I did then. Thanks for the encouragement. (I guess calling him tonight to suggest that we immediately have sex would be a bad thing then, huh?)
Yes, don't do that
How do you interpret the AA adage that says not to have a 'relationship' your first year of sobriety, Hype? Do you think that means emotional relationships, sexual relationships, or both?
Well, of course it doesn't mean you shouldn't be making deep emotional connections to people. When you stop drinking, there are suddenly a lot of fucking hours to fill. I don't even think it would be possible without close friendships.
I guess it's just kind of an extension of the general rule that you shouldn't do things that will distract you from your sobriety. I don't think a steady weekend date will necessarily do that. On the other hand, if you're coming home to someone every day, and all your focus is on building a life together, it's very hard to stay committed to finding your spirituality, taking things one day at a time, and structuring things in a healthy way. And it's very easy to slip back into old patterns.
Frankly, though, I am not going to follow that adage. I'm going to try to find myself a girlfriend, and then stay sober anyway.
If I fail at that and end up drinking again, I figure the worst that will probably happen is I'll end the relationship, pick myself up, start over with that beginner's chip, and try it the other way next time.
But people just aren't meant to go through life alone. And unless you count my roommate, who's barely 22 and a heavy drinker, I'm kind of going it alone right now. And that has been lonely.
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Aldaron
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Posted: Tue Nov 25th, 2008 09:07 am |
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Cajun wrote: Carol2 wrote: You've got your toys. If you're that horny you can use those.
You should forewarn someone before they go eating their lunch while reading...
I almost spewed all over the keyboard and monitor!
Yeah...me too.
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Aldaron
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Posted: Tue Nov 25th, 2008 09:14 am |
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HardyHeaven wrote: manonfire wrote:That is advice for the female alkies, not the males.
Well, that's just sheer and utter crap, Hiram.
The same advice is given to all in AA, regardless of gender.
Man, you think like a neanderthal.
I always think fondly of Hiram when I see this...
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HardyHeaven
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Posted: Wed Nov 26th, 2008 08:13 pm |
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AyHyperbole wrote: HardyHeaven wrote: AyHyperbole wrote: First date sex usually isn't very good for relationships. I don't think it's "immoral" to have first date sex - I just think it's counter-productive, assuming you want there to be more than one date.
How does that work, then? If he really doesn't want a relationship, and since you didn't put out on the first date, I guess he won't be calling for a second date, if sex is all he's looking for, right? (And, btw, I doubt that this guy had any real thought that I would have sex with him as a result of this date. He agreed to go on the date (I asked him), but I hadn't put out any 'let's go to dinner then jump into bed' feelers prior to the movie).
How does a guy know if he's "looking for a relationship" or not? Like, I can say, right now, that I'm not looking for a relationship. That's because when I think through what a 'relationship' is for me: it would mean having to share my time, my space, acclimating my kid to another human body around all the time. Having to shave my legs more often, having to keep my house cleaner, having to acquiese to another's opinion every once in a while, etc. Of course I'm not looking for that kind of relationship.
But don't relationships just happen? Neither person may be really 'looking' for a relationship, but suddenly you meet someone and you both hit it off - before you know it, you're in a relationship.
It seems that there are people (guys even) who say, "Hey, I'm ready to settle down. I'm tired of playing the field. I'm looking for someone with whom to have a relationship." It's rare to find such men, but I hear they're out there.
OTOH, usually NONE of us is really looking for a relationship, right? We want to date, we want to mix and mingle, and most of the time, the relationship part -- well, it just happens.
I think there's a lot of variation between people as far as the stuff you're talking about.
Yes, there are definitely people out there who are "looking for a relationship" - both male and female. And I'm one of them. I'm not "tired of playing the field"; I've never been able to play the field. And that's because I tend to be painfully formal. Not shy - just formal. I'm always too focused on whatever I'm doing to really notice other people.
At work, I work. If people talk to me about non-work stuff, I get uncomfortable, because I'm not working. When I'm doing some kind of activity, I throw myself at it. Band practice is for trying to improve my skill at music. Bowling is for trying to knock down more pins. I don't want to talk about my favorite cuddling position when I'm bowling. That would be getting chocolate in my peanut butter. And I'm the kind of guy who likes to eat peanut butter, and then wait a while, and then eat chocolate.
So the chance of me sort of "falling into" a relationship is pretty low. Like in the other thread, where people were telling me I could meet women at the grocery store - that's totally alien to me. The grocery store is where I buy food. Food and women are two different things.
Really, the only way it's ever worked for me is I meet a girl who's looking for a relationship, and we go out on dates, and we see if we're compatible. Maybe when I meet "the one," it'll be otherwise. Maybe not.
I pretty much always call a girl for a second date, whether we had sex or not. I mean, unless she's just unsufferably horrible, everyone deserves a second chance. But my attitude is different depending on how the first date went. A second date after no sex is a girl I'm trying to get to know. A second date after sex, well, I just feel this anxiety, like there's a cougar in the room and it's going to eat me. There's all these expectations and all this unspoken crap and it's just so much pressure.
I got asked out on a second date. Yipee!!
Other than that, I just wanted to comment that your dialog here is hilariously amusing to me. I wonder how many guys are compartmentalized like you are. Quite a few, I'd guess.
Women want to cuddle while watching the game. Men think we're nuts. It all makes perfect sense now.
When guys wake up in the morning next to a woman who's still for all intents and purposes a stranger, they have a tendency to panic - like "Whoa, what the hell was that, and how does this have the potential to disrupt my life, and how do I get away?" See, that's how I feel. I panic thinking about how things have the potential to disrupt my life.
Yeah, I think on a lot of levels, neither men nor women want first-date sex. It's just that we men have this little voice in our heads that screams "YOU MUST HAVE SEX" and it is very hard to shut it off. Sometimes not even ten seconds after the sex we're thinking "Aw, fuck, I gave in to the fucking voice. Fuck."
There is a lot of obscenity in my internal monologue sometimes.
Women tend to think we have this evil Machiavellian game that we play, where we lie to women about our intentions to get them in the sack, and then break off communication, but I think that's the rare exception rather than the rule. Unfortunately, though, I can see how women might think we're doing that. I know that I personally think that you all are doing that. It makes absolutely no sense. You say you want sex, but when we give you sex, you run. If we don't give you sex, you move on to someone who will give you sex. We can't win .
Well, I think there are some guys who do it on purpose, but believe it or not, I think that's the exception rather than the rule. I think most guys will call back for a second date if there's chemistry there.
A lot of the time there's just no chemistry there. You know how many girls I have chemistry with? I can think of maybe like ten girls I've ever met who I even have conversational chemistry with - who I can even enjoy a conversation with. Maybe ten.
I don't know. I just have so many pet peeves. Like, you know what I hate? People who say "Let's change the subject." Like: "Hey, I'm just going to throw this whole conversation in your lap. It's yours to construct, and I'll just enjoy it when I like it and pass judgment on it when I don't."
If you want to change the subject, segue into a new fucking subject. Very few girls who have proposed a subject change have ever made it to the second date with me.
I never do that - suggest a subject change unless I have a new subject already in mind. In fact, if I may say so myself, I'm quite deft at making conversation. The more diverse, interesting and/or controversial the topic, the better. I have this strange ability to take either side on any issue. I'm so middle of the road (open minded) about most topics, I like to converse just for the pure joy exchanging ideas. It drives my right-wing brother crazy. **shrug**
Maybe some people are a little more one-size-fits-all than I am, but I think with nearly all of us the deck is massively stacked against us. And that's just conversational chemistry. Don't even get me started on sexual chemistry. I think I've experienced that once in my life, and it was with a girl I had no conversational chemistry with.
Because a common thing with guys is that we'll be totally up-front and honest about our intentions, and then we'll start feeling lust, and we'll kind of forget our intentions, and then there's the sex, and then there's the panic. You're left with two choices then. You date someone repeatedly and intentionally don't have sex with her (because you want to keep her). Or you go out and have sex with someone with whom you have no feelings, nor any intention of establishing a relationship. That's queer.
Well, what one needs to do, as a guy, is find the self-discipline to date a girl enough times that you actually start to incorporate her into your life. And once you're comfortable having her around a lot, that's when it's time for the sex. Because then you won't have the "HOW WILL THIS DISRUPT MY LIFE" panic, because you know it really won't.
Self-discipline, though - whew. It's a hard thing, as we alcoholics know. In fact, I wonder if it's the same thing as it is with alcoholism, where you simply can't rely on it. I wonder if I should be praying to a higher power to help me not have sex with my date.
I think by the time most guys get out of his 20s, they kind of get that, but, you know, it's still kind of hard to stick to a game plan like "kiss her goodnight" when your brain is screaming "YOU MUST HAVE SEX WITH THIS WOMAN." So, actually, I think a lot of guys appreciate a little bit of help, there - a little "nah, I'm not up for first date sex." Well, I'm glad I handled my date the way that I did then. Thanks for the encouragement. (I guess calling him tonight to suggest that we immediately have sex would be a bad thing then, huh?)
Yes, don't do that
How do you interpret the AA adage that says not to have a 'relationship' your first year of sobriety, Hype? Do you think that means emotional relationships, sexual relationships, or both?
Well, of course it doesn't mean you shouldn't be making deep emotional connections to people. When you stop drinking, there are suddenly a lot of fucking hours to fill. I don't even think it would be possible without close friendships.
I guess it's just kind of an extension of the general rule that you shouldn't do things that will distract you from your sobriety. I don't think a steady weekend date will necessarily do that. On the other hand, if you're coming home to someone every day, and all your focus is on building a life together, it's very hard to stay committed to finding your spirituality, taking things one day at a time, and structuring things in a healthy way. And it's very easy to slip back into old patterns.
Frankly, though, I am not going to follow that adage. I'm going to try to find myself a girlfriend, and then stay sober anyway.
If I fail at that and end up drinking again, I figure the worst that will probably happen is I'll end the relationship, pick myself up, start over with that beginner's chip, and try it the other way next time.
Oh well, you're not the kind of alcoholic I am then. I don't feel like I have the luxury of thinking I can screw up today, then come back tomorrow for a white chip. If I go out again, I doubt I'll make it back. Hell, it took me 15 years from the first time I left AA (I was sober 3 years from 1990-1993) just to get back this time. I have no doubt that I have plenty of more 'drunks' in me, but I highly doubt that there's another recovery waiting out there for me.
But people just aren't meant to go through life alone. And unless you count my roommate, who's barely 22 and a heavy drinker, I'm kind of going it alone right now. And that has been lonely.
Yeah, being lonely sucks. I don't know what I would do if I didn't have Jada around to keep me distracted.
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If you don't know which God to worship, why don't you start with the one you've been lying to all these years? --A.A. Catchy Phrase #372
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rvhill
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Posted: Wed Nov 26th, 2008 08:32 pm |
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The baseball seen in when Harry met Sally pretty much sums up men in relationships. We want the pretty ones but we will also screw the ugly ones( metaphorically speaking).
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manonfire
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Posted: Wed Nov 26th, 2008 11:28 pm |
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rvhill wrote:
The baseball seen in when Harry met Sally pretty much sums up men in relationships. We want the pretty ones but we will also screw the ugly ones( metaphorically speaking).
Are you saying that Hardly Heaven is a "two bagger"? She's so ugly you put a bag over her head before you have sex with her, and if her's falls off you put the other bag over your head.
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Hyper, Limana, A2, and Evelyn, put your glasses down, and step away from the Kool-Aid!
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HardyHeaven
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Posted: Thu Nov 27th, 2008 12:42 am |
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manonfire wrote: rvhill wrote:
The baseball seen in when Harry met Sally pretty much sums up men in relationships. We want the pretty ones but we will also screw the ugly ones( metaphorically speaking).
Are you saying that Hardly Heaven is a "two bagger"? She's so ugly you put a bag over her head before you have sex with her, and if her's falls off you put the other bag over your head.
I assure you, I'm not an unattractive woman, Hiram.
It's nice of you to try to hurt my feelings though.
Attachment: ProfPhoto2008.jpg (Downloaded 23 times)
____________________
If you don't know which God to worship, why don't you start with the one you've been lying to all these years? --A.A. Catchy Phrase #372
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